LEVINE:

Okay. Today is January 12th, 1999. And I'm here in Lake—

LUSTIG:

Lakewood.

LEVINE:

—wood. Lakewood.

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

New Jersey.

LUSTIG:

Yes.

LEVINE:

With George Lustig, who came from Russia when he was nine years old, nearly ten—

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

—in 1923 on the Byron, the ship, the Byron.

LUSTIG:

Yes.

LEVINE:

And Jean Golsbury, who is here with us, is responsible for having picked up this questionnaire at Ellis Island from the actor. So glad that this could all happen.

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

Okay. If you could just start again for the tape, just saying your birth date.

LUSTIG:

I was born on November 19th, 1913.

LEVINE:

And where in Russia were you born?

LUSTIG:

I was born in—in Crimea, which is a peninsula, nearly an island, which juts out into the Black Sea. And I was born in a town of Simferopol, which was the capitol of Crimea.

LEVINE:

And did you live in the capitol of Crimea up until you left Russia?

LUSTIG:

[Clears throat] We actually lived on my mother's estate, which was approximately 5 or 6,000 acres, self-sufficient estate with all up-to-date equipment and conveniences. It was a progressive area of Russia.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. What was your mother's name?

LUSTIG:

My mother's name was Matilda Kessler

LEVINE:

And her—and that—Kessler was her maiden name?

LUSTIG:

Yes, Kessler was her maiden name.

LEVINE:

And your father's name?

LUSTIG:

My father's name was purely a Slavic name, Sevilad [PH] and Vastigoso [PH], because Catherine the Great had introduced some Austrians and Hungarians and—and Swiss people to help colonize portions of Russia. So that's where the name Lustig and Kessler originates. And on the other side, of course, it was pure Russian. Right.

LEVINE:

Well, now, how long had your father's family been there in Crimea?

LUSTIG:

Well, probably four generations, at least, or longer. Right.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And your mother's had been there for—

LUSTIG:

Same, yes. Uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

Since, I would say, probably since 1760. Yes.

LEVINE:

Now, this estate that you—you lived on, what—what was—what was all the acreage used for?

LUSTIG:

It was used for multi purposes, for orchards, for fruit, raising grain and also like a truck farm, you know, for vegetables, and also for raising horses and beef cattle.

LEVINE:

And who worked this estate?

LUSTIG:

This, well, we—it was a self-sufficient thing. It was—we—the local peasants were employed to do all the work on this estate.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

So—so your family was really quite privileged.

LUSTIG:

Yes, we were well to do.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

Yes.

LEVINE:

And you grew up in that kind of situation?

LUSTIG:

Well, grew up in that—not—not till I was nine years old. I think when I was four or five years old is when the Revolution took place. And of course, being the bourgeoisie or whatever you want to call us, we were barely escaped with our lives when the Revolution took place. And we escaped to the hills with only the clothes we had on our backs. Nothing else.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And were destitute in the hills for a while, for quite a while. Peasants used to bring us the—the—dedicated peasants—loyal peasants used to bring us food occasionally and things like that. And we had one gun, which helped us—helped to provide us with some game. Right.

LEVINE:

Ah.

LUSTIG:

And we had to be completely secret all this time or we would have been executed.

LEVINE:

Mmm. Do you—do you remember kind of the buildup to the Revolution and what was happening to you and your family at that time?

LUSTIG:

No, really, I was too young to remember it or analyze it seriously.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

LUSTIG:

But all I can tell you, we had a wonderful life, couldn't have been any better, completely independent with all—everything the best, constantly, folks going into different countries in Europe. All of the people there could speak several languages, well educated, you know. And so it was—and the peasants who worked for us were loyal people. They did an excellent job. They loved us and eventually saved us.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Now, had you gotten to school at all before you had to [unclear]?

LUSTIG:

No, because of the Rev—Revolution, everything was disoriented. There was no schools, no hospitals, nothing.

LEVINE:

And you had one brother.

LUSTIG:

Had one brother, yes.

LEVINE:

Older or younger?

LUSTIG:

Older. A year and a half older than I.

LEVINE:

And this is Eugene? Is that what—?

LUSTIG:

Eugene, yes.

LEVINE:

Okay. Okay, so do you remember having to flee—

LUSTIG:

I certainly do. It was a terrible thing. I remember every detail, all the sensations and everything involved in it. Yes. I could describe that as necessary—

LEVINE:

Yes, would you?

LUSTIG:

—in detail.

LEVINE:

Would you describe it?

LUSTIG:

Well, peasants came and said there was a raid coming of the Reds. We have to get out quick. So [Clears throat] he—and they said, "They will be here in three or four minutes." So we—in that time, we simply left the house. And along with us was also my mother's brother, Michael. And he managed to grab one gun. And I guess there were my mother, her sister, her sister's two children, and Eugene and I, and my Uncle Misha. And we escaped to the hills.

LEVINE:

Was your father around then?

LUSTIG:

My father—this—well, already, I'm talking, maybe, like, 1917. In 1914 the World War I broke out and my father was an artillery officer in the White Army fighting the Germans and the Austrians. So he was not home. He was on the front.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm, uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

He was on the, so to speak, Eastern Front.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

Eastern Front of Germany, right.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

Right.

LEVINE:

So what did—did you have, like, transportation or you took off on foot?

LUSTIG:

On foot. Absolutely, took off on foot and we stayed in the hills. And the—the peasants sent one of their young boys to find us so we then could communicate. And he showed us a very good hiding place there. It was like a little ravine and it had almost like a cave, completely remote. So we stayed there and we developed a code with the peasants. And when the coast was clear, they would hit two stones together, like in Morse code. And then we would know that we were safe to come—come to the peasant village. And then we would get the—you know, get a little more food and everything like that. And eventually, as things changed, the peasants got us into their village. They dressed us same as they were and we acted as if we were peasants. And the boys were barefooted and all that. And it's thanks to the loyal peasants that I am here today.

LEVINE:

Hmm. How long were you in the cave?

LUSTIG:

We were probably in the—hiding in the hills for at least six months.

LEVINE:

Wow.

LUSTIG:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And then we were in the village with the peasants. And yet, every time we—a raid was expected, we would go back to the hills, not to take any chances, you know. And eventually, also, on this estate of my grandmother and grandfather on my mother's side, also was her grandfather's brother's house, a big house there too. And along with that house, there was a complete weather station that would record the wind velocity, temperatures, earth tremors and the whole thing. So as the communists got more organized, they put a commissar into that house and told him he has to tend to the weather station and make a complete report every week. And he had no idea of how to do that. So [Clears throat] then, through the peasants, he found out that my mother knew how to run the weather station. So the commissar asked us to come over and allowed us to live in a coachman's quarters above the stables. And my mother did all this for him at the weather station. And he sort of protected us a little bit and got us occasionally better food. And at the same time, still everything was mixed up. There were the Whites, the Reds, the Yellows and the Greens. And every so often there would be a raid. And this commissar would know when the raid was coming and he would tell us. And we would all go. It was like a tower on my uncle's palatial house with heavy oak doors. We would sit in that and he gave each one of us a rifle. This is now when I'm maybe six years old. I already had to u—know how to use this rifle. And our orders from him were-- if the door is being actually broken down, we all fire at once. And there—to my memory, there were at least three attempts, or four attempts while we were there to have the door broke. But they never succeeded. So we were fortunate enough that we did not have to fire.

LEVINE:

But you were poised to fire if—

LUSTIG:

Yes. Okay. And then I—I got into a physical problem. We were sleigh riding and were sitting on a sled, and it hit an obstruction. We slid off and I landed with my buttocks on a stone and then—which caused gangrene. And I almost died. But somehow, my mother got me to the town of Simferopol, which was maybe five or six miles away, found her old boyfriend who was a doctor. And he performed the operation in this derelict hospital, in a basement of a derelict hospital, giving me chloroform. I forget—some anesthetic with a—just with a rag. And he performed this complicated operation of removing gangrene—two pounds, at least, of gangrene flesh and cutting into the colon and all. And somehow, due to this doctor, I survived it. I was disabled, maybe, for three years but I survived it and now I'm in good shape.

LEVINE:

Hmm. Now, you say you were sleigh riding. Was—I mean, did— somehow, did life go on with some normalcy throughout the course of these [unclear]?

LUSTIG:

The kids always found little outlet to do something. That's how it was. Right. We found a little sled in one of the coaches—coach— where the horses were kept that evidently belonged to the coachmen and all. And we were—and the snow was not too often there. But this time there was a snowfall and we were enjoying our sleigh riding. And we were both sitting on a sled, you know, one here and one here. And it hit, I think, a stump that we couldn't see. And we both slid off and I landed with my right buttocks on a sharp stone under the—and of course, our diet was—was just barely existing. In the summertime, thanks to my mother, who was very much versed in biol—in botany and all, we always found things we could get right from nature to eat, like nettles, made nettle soup and so forth, without getting into detail.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Now, this commissar, he knew who your mother was?

LUSTIG:

They—only through the peasants.

LEVINE:

Right.

LUSTIG:

And he turned out to be a pretty good guy.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

Yes. It was completely secret that my mother was doing it for him. Consequently, he had to protect us.

LEVINE:

Right.

LUSTIG:

Yes. And eventually then, when I got operated on in the city of Simferopol, my mother got in contact with one of her friends. And we moved then into a home in Simferopol where they were allowed to have two rooms. See, then I was able to recuperate. Right. And then we stayed there. I guess we—all this time, we did not know whether our father was alive or where he was. He was in the White Army and eventually the Reds won. And he had to escape somewheres and whether he was shot or not, we didn't know. So finally, after five years, through the grapevine or the underground, whatever you want to call it, my mother got the information that my father was alive and he was in Constantinople, Turkey. And then, of course, she—I don't know. My mother could perform miracles. Somehow, we escaped and managed to get transportation, first, to Odessa by—by carriage or by horses and partially by train. Then, a small boat from Odessa to Constantinople.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And when we got to Constantinople in Turkey, we found out that my father had gone to America. But there, we had contact with the person that got him to America and we could correspond. So we spent three months in Turkey and eventually, these wonderful Quakers here in Pennsylvania got my mother and my brothers and another small family over to Pennsylvania where we finally joined our father in New York City—go— went through the Ellis Island and all that. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

[Chuckles] I—I didn't know what I was bargaining with here. This is incredible. Well, okay. Let's just back up a minute.

LUSTIG:

Whatever you wish.

LEVINE:

Okay. Now, you started out with your uncle and your aunt and your—and your two cousins.

LUSTIG:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Did—were they then with you and your brother and mother in— in—when the commissar—

LUSTIG:

No, no. Then we all—they separated, not to be in a big group. So if part of us perished, it wouldn't be all of us.

LEVINE:

And—and what did become of them?

LUSTIG:

They eventually got to Simferopol and managed to stay alive, yes. And—and eventually, when—when we left for Constantinople and all, then you could actually correspond. Things got better in the Communist Russia. And we corresponded with them from the farm in Pennsylvania, right, for quite a while on and off. But then, somehow, you know how things slow down and this and that, we completely lost track of them. We did keep track of—long enough to know when my grandmother there passed away. Right. And there, of course, I have correspondence that I could delve into but it's all in Russian. And I cannot read Russian writing. I can read printed Russian. So occasionally, now when we have here an influx of Russians -- who work on the gas station here sometimes, or this and that, who took care of my—my sister-in-law for a while -- with their help, I was able to get quite a bit of this translated and reacquainted with the whole thing, some of which I didn't know and was in doubt about. Right. So I have all of these records in that little valise there [Chuckles] that's compacted in full between a reunion with the Quakers. When all the Quakers passed away, we lost track of them. Before that, we always corresponded with them and all. And finally, I guess it was maybe '91, '92, I have got a letter to me here. And it said, "Please forward." And it was—George Hayes [PH] was a American professor in a col—in a Roberts [PH] College in Constantinople. He was the one who got my father to come to Pennsylvania to run their farm and eventually got us over. And this Ann was his daughter. I remember when she was born, but she didn't know me because she was just a little kid. But she got interested in all that and—and she found—that's another story—got my address and wrote this letter. So of course, I—I—she said, "Write or call this number." So I called her and I got re-united right here. [Chuckles] It's unbelievable stuff, honest.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

Absolutely unbelievable thing. [Chuckles] So been—ever since again, we've rejuvenated all our memories and everything. And she was so anxious to know all the details of this. And I happen to have letters from her father to my people, you know, things that she didn't know. So it was really a—one of those unbelievable little things. And I just talked to them last night. [Chuckles] They're over by Washington, DC there. Right.

LEVINE:

Can you think of any experiences that you had, like when you were in hiding or when you were with the commissar, of dealings with the peasants that—that had once worked—

LUSTIG:

Yes.

LEVINE:

—for your family?

LUSTIG:

When we were in the village with the peasants, absolutely. Most of them, the men, at least, they had worked on the estate. And also, some of their women, like daughters, they were also, like, maids and all. And we had people that took care of us when we were little children, you know, nannies. All from the peasant stock. And then, as we got older, we had—would have, like, a governess. That—she would be from some part of Europe and all to teach us French and all and proper etiquette and all that. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Now, when you were in hiding, did you have contact with some of these same people?

LUSTIG:

Yes, we did. We had contact with them. They constantly corresponded with us by—either by the code or would even come up and visit us secretly in the hills, you know, until they figured it was safe enough for them to move us into their village where, as I said before, they dressed us up as peasants. Didn't have much clothes, anyway, then. But we became real peasants.

LEVINE:

Hmm. And—and so some of these people that you once knew, were they involved with the Revolution at all?

LUSTIG:

No, they—most of them were farmers, estate owners and all. And a lot of them perished. A lot of them knew what was coming and escaped to Europe before it really happened and got their money out and all. So they were much better off than we were. And they were well to do in other countries of Europe, because Europe actually is a small—I don't know whether you call it continent or what. All the countries are close together.

LEVINE:

Right.

LUSTIG:

Smaller countries, and even in those days, everybody traveled all over and spoke different languages. It was like—almost like states here were countries there.

LEVINE:

But the people who had been in the lower peasant class—

LUSTIG:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Did—were they involved in the Revolution in any way?

LUSTIG:

No, they were not involved in the Revolution. They were completely happy to have a life that they had working for the estates and all that. And they just went back to their—to living and somehow surviving in—in the peasant villages.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

Right, yeah. But they were—I don't remember a single one being against us, actually. They were all loyal and always wanted to help us.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. Now, were there Jewish people? Because I know a lot of Jewish people came through Ellis Island around this time from Russia.

LUSTIG:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Were there—were there—

LUSTIG:

No, the—our region there didn't have too—there were the commerce people and the storekeepers in towns. They were Jewish, yes. They were Jewish. But they did not suffer too much because they were considered plain working people. And the communists bypassed them, more or less. They did not tend to exterminate them or displace them, like happened elsewhere.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

Right.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And—and we had—we had friends there that used to visit the estate who were Jewish, yes, on—on a higher level, you know.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

Intellects.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

Jewish intellects. They were always considered to be very knowledgeable people and so forth. Right. They were like two phases of Jewish that we had contact with, the—the merchants and then the intellects.

LEVINE:

I see. So for your mother—I mean, her life completely changed—

LUSTIG:

Of course.

LEVINE:

—during that period. What—what could you say about—about her during that—those years?

LUSTIG:

All I can say that she was an extraordinary, courageous woman, extraordinary, apt to meet with any condition and was always able to maintain some kind of a—a attitude that was not completely hopeless, as many people had. And there was actually famine there, especially when we moved into town. There were people lying on the streets dying of hunger. And you could not help them because you, yourself, barely had enough to eat. So you actually watched people lie there on the street for days and days and finally, they would be dead. And so it was a—well, I guess you—you—after a while; you get used to it and just tend to accept it.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. Do you think—?

LUSTIG:

I—

LEVINE:

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

LUSTIG:

Yeah, go ahead.

LEVINE:

Do you think you have any qualities in your person—in your personality that you would say—that came about as a result of having lived through what you lived through and—and then coming to a new place and starting again in a different way?

LUSTIG:

Well, I can say that the effect that it had on me and many other people was the fact that we learned to survive. And we were less afraid of anything that was ahead of us. We figured if we lived through that, we could live through anything. And so it was we came to this country, of course, and it wasn't easy. Of course, it was a tremendous relief to get away from there and from the constant danger of being destroyed. [Chuckles] But we were put on this derelict farm, so to speak, a farm that was exhausted already, didn't—wasn't farmed anymore. And they wanted my father, who was actually an agron—agronomist over there, to bring this farm back to life.

LEVINE:

This is in Pennsylvania?

LUSTIG:

Yes. This is in Pennsylvania.

LEVINE:

At a Quaker farm?

LUSTIG:

Yes. That was the Quaker farm. They had two homes of their own there, big homes where they lived. And they also had a tenant's home where we lived. And [Clears throat]—but of course, there was not too much money. And my—and there were two horses on this farm, neither one of them really a workhorse, and some chickens and that's all. That's what my dad had to start with, okay? But of course, with financial help from the Quakers, because we had no money. Nothing.

LEVINE:

You left with nothing.

LUSTIG:

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. And—but everybody cooperated and the farm was going—slowly getting, maybe, on top. And I have complete reports from my father to the Quakers here and all, exactly what was going on. And then the Depression hit.

LEVINE:

Well, just before you talk about that, where was the farm? Where in Pennsylvania?

LUSTIG:

The farm was about seven miles southwest of Westchester, Pennsylvania in Chester County -- in a little village of Embreeville right on the Brandywine Creek. Part of the farmland was on one side of the Brandywine Creek and part on the other. The meadows were on the other side, right.

LEVINE:

How—about how many acres?

LUSTIG:

The farm was 108 acres, mostly hilly and maybe 20 acres of it level on the other side of the stream. Right.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And the Quakers. What would you say about your contacts with them; from the time you first had contact in Turkey—

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm, yeah.

LEVINE:

—and then coming over here and being on the farm. What would you say about them?

LUSTIG:

I just cannot praise those people enough. They're completely dedicated—dedicated, honest. They want to help people. You know what I mean? And—and yet, at the same time, they're very practical and tried to do things in a way that wouldn't -- not fail, you know. And all I can say, they are about as dependable and, well, I don't quite find the right words now. How would you call Quakers? [Chuckles] Jean, tell me.

JEAN G:

Think of the word that—that they—covers—they wanted to educate you also. And—and this is where you learned your outdoor skills?

LUSTIG:

Yes.

JEAN G:

And your lifetime hobbies?

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm.

JEAN G:

from the young Quaker girl who took you over. Tell that part.

LUSTIG:

The relationship was very good all the time. And there was this Eleanor Hayes. She was the daughter of one of the Quakers there. She was five or six years older than my brother and I. And she undertook to educate us. And she taught us how to swim, do the Australian crawl, how to canoe, acquainted us with fundamentals of baseball, football and taught us how to play tennis, how to ride a bike and everything. And she was not a hundred percent conformist, so to speak, because there in Chester County, the general outlook on life was sort of narrow and limited. But Eleanor never hesitated, deviate slightly from it to reach a certain goal. And consequently, we acquired that quality from her and never hesitated to do the same, and advanced in life. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Now—

LUSTIG:

And she is—she is now 92 years old.

LEVINE:

Wow.

LUSTIG:

Or 91, I guess. And she's out in Oregon and I just talked to her and wished her a Merry Christmas and everything. But in July there was a—a memorial service for her aunt—no, her cousin. Her cousin. [Chuckles] I—I have to be careful. And I was invited there. So my daughter and my granddaughter and I went to this memorial service for two of the Quakers, whom I knew.

LEVINE:

This is in Pennsylvania?

LUSTIG:

Yes, this is in Pennsylvania here. This was in—in July of—of '98. So—and so I met, again, a lot of the Quakers-- their—their siblings who survived. The older ones, of course, are all gone. And then we had this memorial service in their meeting house where y—in Qua—in the Quaker meetinghouse. People just sit, think and then get up and say something about a certain person or this and that. So I finally got enough courage to get up and talk about Catherine Derantes [PH]. And then I also talked about Harry Apenlander [PH], who married one of the Hayes girls. Boy, [Chuckles]—

LEVINE:

You were glad you did it though?

LUSTIG:

Oh, yeah. Oh, certainly. Afterwards, you say, "What the heck?" [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

So do you remember anything of what you said about her? About—

LUSTIG:

Well, actually—actually, what I did, I read—she had written a letter to her cousin after our reunion maybe six or seven years ago here in which she described me when she first saw me. END OF TAPE 1, BEGIN TAPE 1, SIDE B

LUSTIG:

You know?

LEVINE:

Oh, that would be wonderful.

LUSTIG:

Right.

LEVINE:

What did she say?

LUSTIG:

Would you like to read it?

LEVINE:

No. I'd like you to say --- just give us a flavor.

LUSTIG:

Yes. OK. She said, "There in front of me stood this good- looking young ma—good-looking man, healthy and everything, looking at me as if I'm just a—a neighbor, you know what I mean, and how her feelings welled up and everything. And she actually cried. And then she remembered me when she first saw me in outlandish clothes with shoes that were too big for me and everything, described me as a—described me so perfectly as a foreigner who just came here. And then she said, "And to think now, 69 years later, he's standing in front of me." That's when I was 79. See? In—but I can't say it the way she does.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

But I—this is what I read in the meetinghouse.

LEVINE:

I see.

LUSTIG:

Because it was typical of her how she grasped things, how she was able to describe them and give you the feeling, you know.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And Harry Apenlander—we were invited to—he married George Hayes's—he married George Hayes's sister. Right. And we were invited to the wedding and—and then after we'd already left the farm, I was visiting the farm. And he and—and George Hayes were going to New Castle, Delaware to a aircraft factory there to see a certain special plane. And they invited me to go with them. And Harry Apenlander had just purchased a 19—a brand new 1930 Model A Ford. And we all three sat in the seat of that Ford. And Harry Apenlander, his foot goes to the floor, you know. And I was 16 years old by then, but he was a excellent driver. To me, that was a special thrill, go all the way from Embreeville to New Castle, Delaware with that Model A doing 68 miles an hour, which was top speed, every chance it had.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

And we—and we went there to inspect an airplane that the Belanca [PH] Corporation made to make a non-stop flight from New York to Rome, Italy. And so we were actually able to sit at the controls of it and all and visited, at the same time, one of their test pilots. And this test pilot was—used to be a next-door farmer. He bought a Curtis 1 Jenny World War I plane, assembled it himself in his barn, taxied it on top of his hill back and forth and, one day, announced that he was going to fly. He took off and flew over all the farms and everything. And he used to—and he became one of the test pilots for the Belanca Corporation. [Laughs]

LEVINE:

Now, do you happen to know why the Quakers were involved in helping your father? And did they help others too?

LUSTIG:

Yes, their—that was their nature.

LEVINE:

What was—that was like a mission they had, or how—how did they—were there—were there Quakers in Russia or in Turkey or—

LUSTIG:

No, no. There was this—there was—Roberts College in Constantinople where this Quaker, George Hayes, was a professor of English, see.

LEVINE:

I see.

LUSTIG:

And that's how—and their nature was to help people. They also were famous for their un—underground services for the colored, for the Negroes, you know. Certainly—

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

—they—you would be surprised how many Negroes they got across. It's their nature to help people. And they—they don't want to be in—in—in a Service. They don't want to kill anybody and so forth. I'm not—right now, I'm getting a little overburdened so I can't describe them exactly the way they are. But they are wonderful people.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. Now, you, of course had no education by the—what— when you hit this country?

LUSTIG:

No, I had no education.

LEVINE:

Did you go to school?

LUSTIG:

Yes, yes. Just was a little bit delayed. We were because, as I was going through Ellis Island, I already had measles.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay. Well, actually, I jumped ahead.

LUSTIG:

Oh, okay.

LEVINE:

Let me—let me go back a minute. So you—you left Europe from where?

LUSTIG:

We left Europe from Simferopol—oh, Eu—Europe, we left from Constantinople, Turkey.

LEVINE:

And then where did you—where did you board the ship?

LUSTIG:

We boarded the ship in Constantinople.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay.

LUSTIG:

Yes, uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

And that was the Byron.

LUSTIG:

That was the Byron. It was a—it was a—a Greek ship flying a British flag, a Greek ship run by Greeks flying a British—and it was—that was filled with all the immigrants, you know. Just like a bunch of cattle in this steamer. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Okay, d—if you could describe when you got to the ship and what—what it was like, the whole voyage and—

LUSTIG:

The—the ship, there were, like, several decks in it. They were mostly cargo decks. And on there were placed, almost like benches and things and wooden tables. You slept on these benches and you ate mass production on these wooden tables. It was long wooden tables. And you just got the barely, basic survival foods. Right. Porridge and—and bread, you know, and maybe some kind of soup.

LEVINE:

Huh.

LUSTIG:

And it took—gosh, I forgot now. I have it written but I forgot how long it took to get across. Anyway, we got on a tail end of a hurricane coming. This was in late October. And everybody was sick, almost dying. And finally, we got to the New York harbor.

LEVINE:

Can you think about—can you remember anything about what you were thinking or what you were feeling as a—as a nine-year-old, after what you'd been through, coming across?

LUSTIG:

Yes, we were—we were thinking we were coming to a paradise because we had read books by—ah, I forgot his name. American books there that were translated—Fenimore Cooper—and in which he always described the palm trees and Indians and all that. So we expected to see beaches, pine trees and Indians. And the first thing we saw, we entered New York harbor, was two barges filled with dead horses. [Chuckles] They were going to a soap factory, you know. Was completely different than we expected. And—and as our ship was anchored there, my father came up to New York City to try to meet us. And he rode out in a little boat that he hired, and he was able to talk to us from that little boat and we were on the deck of this one. He was not permitted to board the ship. But that was the first time in five years—we hardly knew our father, really. And so we got acquainted from deck to little boat, so to speak. And then we, of course, went through the mass production thing in Ellis Island, which—which really terrified us.

LEVINE:

Wh—why?

LUSTIG:

Yes. Because you were just a piece of nothing shoved around and handled like you were an item, not a per—not a human being. That's— that's why, always on the verge of being sent back or detained or something. All the time they were just interested to find every little possible thing wrong with you that they could to detain you.

LEVINE:

And you had measles?

LUSTIG:

And I had measles and they never detected that. [Chuckles] And as we came to the farm in Pennsylvania there, my measles were in full force and had to have a doctor. And then my—my brother and the other boy that we joined from the other family, they got the measles. So all three of us had measles at the same time. But when we finished with the measles, then on a farm maybe a mile and a half up the line there was assistant superintendent of the Unionville Consolidated School in Pennsylvania. She got us on a school bus—we couldn't speak a word of English—and—and escorted us to the principal's office in a—in this Unionville Consolidated School. And the principal looked at us. He didn't know what to do. Finally, he p—pointed to this, said, "Hat," pointed to that, "Shoe, coat." Then he scratched his head. Then he said, "Come on." And he took us to the teacher in first grade. [Chuckles] But the teacher in first grade, she had been to Europe and all. She knew exactly what to do with us. So that was our start. And we started with first grade. But the teachers were good there. They had been to Europe in those days and all. And they were able to advance us. So I did the 12 years in 8 years.

LEVINE:

Now, were you in a Quaker school?

LUSTIG:

No, this was the regular Unionville Consolidated School. Before that, in Chester County, it was all, like, one and two-room schools. And they finally consolidated and built this modern school, no less, were ready with buses to bus you. [Chuckles] Yes.

LEVINE:

Now, did you work on the farm as—when you were going to school? Was that part of what you did or—

LUSTIG:

Oh, yes. Certainly. Especially, I always enjoyed tending to—to—we—we acquired a herd of milk cows, Holsteins. And then you--I have to—had to pasture them and tend them and get them on a meadow and bring them back. And that was my job, mostly. And—and in the spring, when all the plowing was done, at 10 years old, I was very good with a plow. You know, with a hand plow and the two horses. Right. So my father never had any problem getting me to help him in plowing. Some other things, of course, you tried to avoid. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

[Chuckles] Like what?

LUSTIG:

And—well, like cleaning manure out of the stalls and all that stuff [Chuckles], you know. But one of the things about plowing, exciting things was that this Eleanor taught us how to look for Indian artifacts and to—to me, that was the ultimate exciting thing. And so whenever I was plowing, I watched that ribbon of soil coming off that moldboard and watching and watching to see. And one day, comes a Indian ax. [Chuckles] I stopped the horses, put the reins around the plow. I grabbed it, looked at it, wiped it on my jeans and went home with it. And I'll show you. I've got it—

LEVINE:

Wait, wait, wait.

LUSTIG:

Yeah. Ooh.

LEVINE:

Go ahead. We're going to pause here a second. What you're remembering is incredible.

JEAN G:

[unclear]

LEVINE:

I bet, I bet.

LUSTIG:

And I had this swimming—

LEVINE:

I bet. I bet.

LUSTIG:

Look at how many years we went through already. Ah.

LEVINE:

Well, how about religion? Were you a—was your family practicing any religion back in Russia?

LUSTIG:

Yes, they were the—the Russian Orthodox, which eventually stemmed from the Greek Orthodox. Regular Christians, you know. Pretty close between Episcopal and—and Catholic, I would say.

LEVINE:

Yes, uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

That was—that was the status of their religion, yes.

LEVINE:

And [unclear]—

LUSTIG:

And of course, during the communists you had no religion. You couldn't practice anything. All the churches were closed up or destroyed, you know. So I had no taste of their religion and when we came here, of course, on the farm in Pennsylvania, there were no Russian churches anywhere near. But we used to go to the Quaker meetings as—for— like, for Sunday school. I remember still that my brother, Gene, and I would actually get dressed up a little bit, hitch Maude—hitch Maude to the buggy. And we would go to Romansville [PH] Meeting House, like for Sunday school services, where we were taught basic Christianity. And that's—that's about it. Right.

LEVINE:

And we were saying during the break about—about your father reading to you. Why—why don't you tell more about that?

LUSTIG:

Yes. Well, they gave us this book called Two Little Savages. And it described these two boys. Well, now, my mind is getting blank. Help me out.

JEAN G:

I can't remember their names.

LUSTIG:

[Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Two boys. That's enough.

LUSTIG:

Yes, two boys. And how one of the boys—he was—he was a city boy, and he had poor health and they sent him to the farm. In those days, they usually sent them to the farm so they would get well. You know, be out in the sticks. And he got acquainted with this other boy that was on the farm and they became pals. And --they were super interested in Indians already. And they—they met a man there who knew Indian lore and they really got deeply into it. And it—and it was—this book is actually an educational thing, told you how to survive in nature and do different useful things at the same time and all that. So in the wintertime, my father would read us a chapter or part of a chapter every evening while we sat around a little wooden stove in the parlor. And then we would try to copy these two boys and do the same things that they did. [Chuckles] And one of the—one of the things was, for instance, how they built this dam so they would have a little pond. Then they could swim in it and jump into it. Well, we—by this time, we had lost the other farm. But we moved to another farm for a year and a half. And on Stanton's [PH] farm in the meadow there was a little stream so we kind of proceeded and dammed it up. And all of a sudden, Mr. Stanton one day discovers there's a pond in his [Chuckles] meadow. And he comes storming to us and we said, "Now, look. Now, you have a pond. Before, you had nothing. Now, you have a pond. You can go swimming in it. You can dive off the old wooden bridge and all that." And I said, "We did it from the instructions in the book." Before you know it, we got him interested in—and he loved it. [Laughs] And then, also, another little item too. They described how they made their first long bow. And they—there was a choice of different wood—the different kinds of wood to use. And the best was seasoned hickory. So where can we find seasoned hickory? So we go in the barn and there there's these poles where—to drop hay from the upper story to the lower. We look at the bark and it's hickory. [Chuckles] And it's been in there for years, well seasoned. So we go to the top floor where they're sticking out, no hay around there. So we cut off a piece. We cut off a piece and we camoufla---camouflaged the fresh cut. You know what I mean? So it looked like it has been cut a long time. And we split it the way it said in the book and we made long bows, actually, and all that. And we're shooting them and we showed them to my father. And he's [Chuckles] looking at them and say, "Ha, I see where the hickory went." [Laughter] But never said anything else.

LEVINE:

Now, this book was—was—who was the author?

LUSTIG:

Ernest Thompson Seton.

LEVINE:

Wait, wait, wait.

LUSTIG:

Oop, wait a minute. I have it right here, this thing.

LEVINE:

Well, we could get it at the end.

LUSTIG:

Okay.

LEVINE:

Okay. Ernest Thompson Seton.

LUSTIG:

Seton, yeah. S-E-T-O-N.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And so, in other words, you got a lot of training in the out of doors and then you—this book was even more.

LUSTIG:

Yes, that's right.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

LUSTIG:

That's right. It plunged us into the outdoors, how to understand them, appreciate them and live in them. Right. And with all that you could get out of it. You didn't have to be lonesome or do any crazy things, because the outdoors—interest in birds. We started the egg collection. The Quakers were wonderful. They were educated people. One of them was a big librarian at Swarthmore College there by—by Philadelphia. And the other one was a lawyer in Westchester, you know. And their wives, they were all educated people. So they were always helping us go in the right direction. And they got us permit to collect birds' eggs. So—and that was a fascinating thing. And you had to collect birds' eggs without hurting the birds. You would watch the bird build a nest and finally see it sitting in it and everything. And then we would try to figure out when the bird would have laid at least two eggs. And then we would take one out when the bird wasn't there. Because if you let the bird sit on the eggs, you couldn't blow it out, because the embryo would form, you know. Right. And that was really something. I tell you, I remember the—the most wanted—we wanted to get was the hummingbirds. Finally, we found a nest where they building on the horizontal branch above the dirt road there. And they built this nest and then we saw the female sitting on it. And just at that time, we had to go to the meadow and bring a load of hay. And I figured out the height so I loaded the hay extra high. [Chuckles] And we got under the nest and there were two eggs there. And we got one out and successfully blew it out. And then I come to the barn and my father says, "Hey, you loaded up this hay a little too high this time." I said, "The way the hay is, it compacted nice, Dad. It's fine." [Laughs]

LEVINE:

Then what? Did you have a collection of all these eggs?

LUSTIG:

Yeah, 56 different kinds, we wound up with. I still have remains of it here. Yes, some—when—sometime when I didn't live here all the time, somebody broke in and some of them got broken. But I still have—I—we even managed to smuggle, I think six or eight eggs out of Russia, no less. Different birds. I still have part of them. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

So you were interested in that over there before?

LUSTIG:

Yes, yes. My—my father and my mother's brother, they were great hunters. They had bird dogs and everything like that. You know what I mean?

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

So that was instilled in us from age one. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

An interest in conservation then. It was practiced there. There, you had to obey—before the Communists took over, you had to obey the laws to a T. There was no excuses. All different game laws and things like that. Right.

LEVINE:

You mean what you could shoot and—

LUSTIG:

Yes, and when you could shoot it and how much. Right.

LEVINE:

Now, did your father then stay managing farms? Is that what he did when he was [unclear]?

LUSTIG:

No, no. This was—now; we were in the depth of the Depression.

LEVINE:

Oh, the Depression.

LUSTIG:

1929 and '30. So, [Clears throat] as the Quakers could not afford to re—bring this farm back to life anymore, because it took money all the time. Had to have new machinery, fertilizers and everything. But they got my dad a temporary job on another farm not too far away. And that's where we were at Stanton's Farm for a year and a half. And then that collapsed in a Depression. And the Quakers got my father a job in—in the town of Westchester in the Sharpa [ph] separator works. The— the separator was a machine in those days that separated cream from milk. And Sharpa separators were the best in the world. So he worked there, I guess, for a year and a half and that collapsed. So then we loaded everything into our little Model T truck and went to New York City.

LEVINE:

Hmm. Why did you go there?

LUSTIG:

Because that's only place where my dad could get a job, because he knew some Russians that started interior decorating business. In other words, frankly speaking, painting apartments and stairway wells and things like that. So we loaded up to Newark, left the car there because, in those days, there was no place to keep a car in the city, and took all our belongings and we moved into an apartment on the fourth floor in the Bronx, 166th Street and Boston Road. And [Clears throat] my father went into the apartment painting and decorating with friends. And I went to, that time, a junior high school, 66, and—walking distance from there. And when I was finished with that, then I had to go to high school. And they gave you a choice of any high school you wanted. So I picked—I picked Stuyvesant High School. That was on East 15th Street. But that was a technical school. You had to take two shops every day. And it was an all-boys school. And that proved to be a super school. It still is to this day. [Chuckles] Yeah, I graduated from Stuyvesant High School and I took tests for the Cooper Union, which was the free university. But I was not accepted. But I was lucky enough to get a job in a garage, DNF—D-N-F Brake Service—I still remember—on West 69th. I worked there for a year, saved enough money so that I bought a complete set of the best carpenter tools and a tent. And by that time, I had also acquired a little Model T Ford. And I put all that into my Model T Ford and came down to Lakewood, because at that time it was a chicken, egg boom. Anyone who had two or three acres of land could build chicken coops and survive with 1,200 chickens.

LEVINE:

What year was that?

LUSTIG:

That would be, I guess, 1933. 1933. Yes. So I came to Lakewood where I knew somebody that had four acres, pitched my tent right down maybe two miles from here, and went into building chicken coops, some as long as 300 feet. And then even building garages where the chicken farmers lived until they could afford to build a modest bungalow and all. And then I met my fu—future brother-in-law because I had more work than I could handle. And he was helping me put up the chicken coops and garages. But there was no future in that. So we wanted to get something. So we actually started up a engine repair business in his father's barn right here on Massachusetts Avenue. [Chuckles] And we would rebuild automobile and marine engines and other things that went with it. And we also wanted to have a machine shop. But neither one of us had knowledge in a machine shop practice. So we both went to School of Industrial Arts in Trenton, a two-year technical course, which was excellent. And so we would commute every day to Trenton, go to school and—and my second year, I was pretty good in math. And they needed assistant instructor in math for the evening classes of applied math to the people who worked. So I was fortunate enough to get this part-time job in the School of Industrial Arts. So I used to make two trips a day from here to Trenton [Chuckles] and eventually did graduate from the three-year course. And got a job in William Arthrop [PH] and Company in Trenton, because of the—what the School of Industrial Arts gave me. Yes, and my knowledge there. And there, I sort of lied a little bit as to the size of the machinery that I was used to. [Chuckles] But the foreman there, he understood. But he liked me, for some reason, so he gave me a job. He says, "Only, George," he says, "I'm going to put you—you said you had experience on a 30-inch boring mill." I says, "Well, I'll put you on our smallest one here, which is a 72-inch." [Chuckles] And—and he said, "This young fellow there, he will orient you and help you out." And who do you think this was? This was Bill McNorton, 17-year-old immigrant from Scotland. [Laughs] And so we, of course, became friends. Unbelievable. We still are to this day. [Chuckles] And I—eventually, I went through all the different machines and everything and was about ready to start my own machine shop when the Pearl Harbor came. So of course, then I went on defense work for a year and then I enlisted in the Navy and was shipped to the Mediterranean. I was in the Advanced Amphibious Forces, which supported all the invasions. That was for the invasion of Sicily and Italy. And when that was over with, [Chuckles] I was sent for a rest, no less, to Scotland. Of course, we—we never knew where we were going. But I'm just going on this LST. It's a flat-bottomed ship's landing craft. And I recognized, when we finally got into the green country up there and all, that it was the Firth of Clyde, where Bill McNorton came from.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

[Chuckles] And sure enough, we were stationed temporarily, to get a rest, in these Quonset huts across the River Clyde from Greenock, where Bill McNorton was born.

LEVINE:

Now, he was with you in the Navy?

LUSTIG:

N—no, no, no.

LEVINE:

Ah.

LUSTIG:

He was in the Air Force. He was a B-24 pilot and I was in Advanced Amphibious Force for all the invasions. So anyway, I didn't waste time getting a little boat across to Greenock. I went to the police station [Chuckles], introduced myself as Bill McNorton's friend. And there was this Mr. Smith there who was a sergeant. And he was his mother's sister's husband, no less. [Chuckles] So they took me to their home. So I had the second home when I was in Scotland. [Chuckles] So you see, all kinds of unbelievable things happen.

LEVINE:

Yeah, right.

LUSTIG:

Right.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Well, how did you feel about fighting on the side of this country?

LUSTIG:

Well, I felt that we were attacked by Japan-- you know what I mean? You had loyal feelings and you wanted to do something about it. So the reason I enlisted in the Navy, I didn't have any particular desire of directly killing anyone, you know. I thought maybe I could avoid it by doing so. And I did, but the whole thing in the Navy too was a million-dollar adventure because I'm here speaking to you. Right.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

So I was in the Mediterranean sector. Then we're Advanced Amphibious base for the Normandy invasion. Then they organized a Naval reconnaissance party to get to Bremerhaven, because in Bremerhaven, German, that was when the war was already in our favor. There, Germans have quite a few of their navy battleships and things, like, bottled up there in this harbor. And our Navy commanders didn't want them to sink their—scuttle them. [Chuckles] So they organized this rather ridiculous Navy reconnaissance party of about, I don't know, maybe 35 men and 22 officers. And we went from Scotland by vehicles and train and—and across the English Channel to Belgium, and then were assigned to the—sometimes to the British and sometimes to the Scotch Highland Division forces and advanced with them on front lines, actually, crossed the Rhine on a pontoon bridge, got to Bremerhaven where all those ships were. And there, under threat—this is before the war was over. And there, under the threat of complete destruction unless they surrendered, this whole naval base surrendered to us, maybe 4,000 people.

LEVINE:

Ah.

LUSTIG:

And so then, of course, we went to save the ships. But they had no intentions of scuttling them. They gave us—they welcomed us and gave us parties. [Chuckles] So you see, you never know.

LEVINE:

Ah.

LUSTIG:

And they were—so, eventually, we got all that secured. And I had some other experience there. I was put in charge of a ship that had Russian prisoners on it. That was a real sad thing.

LEVINE:

And what—

LUSTIG:

They begged me to get them—to get United States forces to take them over. But we were in a British sector, actually. American Navy in a British sector; imagine that. [Chuckles] There's not much I could do about it so I never knew what happened, because they—and the Russians were advancing at the same time. And they—if they would get them, they would be considered deserters, you know. Terrible. But anyway, we got everything secured there and then finally flew back—no, flew to England and then took another LSD ship across to Norfolk, Virginia. And I was finally back in the United States and had my first rehabilitation leave, and was being ready—they had me ready to ship to the Pacific when the atomic bomb was dropped there. And that ended. So then I was discharged in October, just about exactly three years after I had been enlisted.

LEVINE:

Now, we need to stop here because we're at the end of the tape. END OF TAPE 1, SIDE B BEGIN TAPE 2, SIDE A

LEVINE:

Now, we're continuing here. [Clears throat] Let's see. Did we finish with you—when you were discharged from the Navy?

LUSTIG:

Oh, I was discharged from the Navy, yes, [Clears throat] came to Norfolk. Right. And finally, then I got my rehabilitation leave and was getting orders to be shipped to Pacific when the atomic bomb was dropped and the war with [Clears throat] Japan was ended. And then I was discharged in October. And at the same time, Bill McNorton was discharged in October. He was a B-24 pilot. And before the war, our dream was to build an airplane or to get one. So now, we were both discharged with plenty of back pay. And the first thing we did, went up here in North Jersey where they had a big stock of training planes for the war that were on sale now. And we picked out a Stearman bi-plane, no less. That was his basic trainer when he went into the Air Force, and acquired that [Laughs] and had two most wonderful years with that airplane—

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

—going hunting and fishing by plane, landing here on a neglected street in Lakewood and taxiing it up to my mom's and dad's little house, no less. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Oh.

LUSTIG:

This was the year—last years of free flying. You didn't have to report anything; you just went. [Chuckles] And then, of course—then, Floss—well, I didn't tell you when I got married, did I?

LEVINE:

No, you didn't tell me—and, okay. Why don't you tell that. And then did you start the machine shop?

LUSTIG:

Yeah, when I intend to start the machine shop, the war broke out.

LEVINE:

Right.

LUSTIG:

Right. And so then Florence was my friend, Ed's—the ones—we had a business together here-- engine business—his sister. I married her.

LEVINE:

And what was her maiden name?

LUSTIG:

Her name was—maiden name was Schwarz—S-C-H-W-A-R-Z. She was of French Canadian and Austrian stock and English. Her grandfather came from England. Right. So—and [Chuckles] where was I? Yeah. And so we— we decided to get married. We had been going together for several years. And then I enlisted, yeah, and—and this was in February 28th, 1942. We were married, had a two-week honeymoon, went—drove to Florida, no less. [Chuckles] We had $67 to do our honeymoon on. But then $67 lasted. So we had a terrific time, East Coast, West Coast, Key West and all that. And, oh, now, my mind's going bad. Okay. Anyway, came back and I enlisted in the Navy and was inducted in November, enlisted in October, was inducted in—in November, went into training at the Sampson Training Station in New York state, had all kinds of detentions there because of quarantines, and eventually got out of that and into the Advanced Amphibious Forces. And in March of '43, started across the ocean to the Mediterranean sector, stopping in Bermuda. But our trip from New York to Bermuda was a—we were in a terrific northeaster that took six days to get from New York Ci—New York city to Bermuda, and then 26 days to get to Oran [PH] in the Mediterranean. And then we had bases there, as I had mentioned before, for the invasion of Sicily and Italy. Okay. So now we got back where? Yeah, I got—

LEVINE:

Yeah, let me ask you a question, just—

LUSTIG:

Yes.

LEVINE:

—about the immigrant—immigration part. Did your family stay in contact with other people from Russia? In other words, w—were you part of a—a Russian kind of society or network of people when you were here?

LUSTIG:

No.

LEVINE:

You—you—

LUSTIG:

No, not until we moved to New York City.

LEVINE:

Right, because that was [unclear].

LUSTIG:

Then, there were quite a few Russians there. Some of the Russians had started businesses there. Then, we were punched back into [Clears throat]; you know, association with—associating with other Russian people.

LEVINE:

And how did your mother—mother and father fare as far as this country? What were their attitudes about it and how did they adjust or—

LUSTIG:

They were—they were, of course, very grateful to get away from all that, you know. But at the same time, they were plunged into the Depression, which was [Clears throat]—everybody was trying to make a living somehow. There was no money even here. And my mother worked in a crocheting sweat factory, so to speak, in New York, long hours and all that. Life was not—by no means, easy. It was nothing like she had been used to before the Revolution. [Chuckles] But it was much better than the Revolution. See, that's—that's the best way I can put it. We—we felt free here and we could do what we wanted to do. Nobody could tell us what to do or not to do.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And somehow, the—my mother and father always managed—they never were able to get into something to make a lot of money. But we always managed to get by.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

Right.

LEVINE:

How about your brother? What could you say about his—the changes in him from the time—

LUSTIG:

He took—

LEVINE:

—he came here?

LUSTIG:

He took everything in stride. He was much more easygoing than I. I used to be more agitated and excited. My brother was easygoing. He took everything in stride, accepted it, digested it, [Clears throat] and never had any real problems. Right. So [Clears throat] he went to high school up in the Bronx, the Morris High School, and graduated from that, then went to City College, I guess, and then to some other university. I forgot now. And then he was inducted into the Army and he was sent to the Pacific sector and he survived that. Right.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

But he passed away early in life. He—I guess he was 67 when he passed away.

LEVINE:

Did he have an academic career?

LUSTIG:

[coughs]

LEVINE:

Is that what he did?

LUSTIG:

What?

LEVINE:

Did he go into the academics or—

LUSTIG:

No. No, he—after graduating from colleges, he—he just went into the service.

LEVINE:

Oh, and he stayed in the service?

LUSTIG:

N—no. But he got a good job because of his experiences in education. He was a—he got a job as an inspector of military equipment, which was at a good salary and good benefits and all. So that's where—he retired, actually, from that. Right.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

And then he and his wife moved to Florida and had a place there and their daughter—they had one daughter. She—we—I still keep in contact with her. She's on Long Island, West Islip.

LEVINE:

Oh, uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And so she participated also with me with the Quaker rejuvenation and all. I tried to get all—any part of my family to just— to get into that and get acquainted, and they—and they are. Yes, yes.

LEVINE:

And what would you say are the high points of your life, or the high point?

LUSTIG:

The high point of what?

LEVINE:

Your life.

LUSTIG:

The high point of my life. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Or what should I say? How about, what has brought you a lot of satisfaction in your life?

LUSTIG:

[Sniffs] Well, I—I have to think. I guess the—the best part of it—that in this country, you don't have to have an education to succeed. You have a complete freedom of tackling whatever you want. And it's up to you to make something of it. [Clears throat] And I have—all through my life; I have never failed to have that free feeling. Every job I took would be something that I thought I would like to give of myself and do and like to do that—with a purpose, not to just stay there and eventually retire. And every job that I took after we had our kids; I was determined to show them as much of this country as possible. So every job that I took, one stipulation that I gave my employer was that I wanted three weeks of vacation, with or without pay. I didn't care. But I wanted that vacation to be anticipated and free without trying to talk me out of it, because I would then quit and take it anyway. And I succeeded in doing that. So, consequently, we were able to show our kids, by camping, 42 states of this country and almost all the provinces. So we actually emerged into them and had the feel for different locations. Right. [Clears throat] And—and also, I had fascinating experiences. When I got out of the service, the company that you had worked for was obligated to take you back. And so I worked for William Arthrop and Company as a machinist. But when I came back, I said, "I'll come back if you'll give me a job in the engineering department." And they didn't want to do that at the time. But meanwhile, through the School of Industrial Arts, I had an offer to teach in Pennsylvania temporarily. There was a tremendous shortage of teachers in Pennsylvania, so they sent me to the principal of the Makefield Township schools in Pennsylvania. And I talked to him. He was a very nice person and he said, "George, I have no choice," even though I didn't have actually qualifications for teaching. [Clears throat] But he said, "We would appreciate it very much if you would take this job until the original instructor would be discharged from the services." So I said, "Okay, I will take this job under only one condition, that you allow me to teach the way I think teaching should be done, from my experiences in schools." And he shook my hand and said, "George, I have no choice." [Chuckles] And so I got this job temporarily teaching science, algebra, biology and geometry in a Makefield Township school in Pennsylvania. And then was one of my highlight experiences that made—

LEVINE:

Why was it—why was it such a highlight?

LUSTIG:

because I remembered everything how I would liked to have been taught. And I pursued it to the best of my ability to do that. And I would get myself and the kids so enthused in these different things, they didn't want to leave my class, you know. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And there were, like, two girls in the algebra class. They just sat there. Well, you know, I'm a novice at teaching there, more or less, so after two weeks, I approached them and asked them what the problem is and this and that. And they said, "Well, the other teacher said that we would never pick up algebra so we just put our time in and that's all." So I started to pay attention and give them little hints and everything. And I still have a letter from this one who got a scholarship in math.

LEVINE:

Wow.

LUSTIG:

[Chuckles] And the other one was an 85 student. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Yeah.

LUSTIG:

That's just—

LEVINE:

Hmm—

LUSTIG:

—one little highlight of the whole thing.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

LUSTIG:

So eventually, the other teacher was discharged and took over. I guess maybe only six months I was in it, you know.

LEVINE:

Oh.

LUSTIG:

That was a super experience. Boy!

LEVINE:

Do you think back much on the—the coming here and what—what immigrating here has—has meant to you? Or how do you think about it? How do you feel about it?

LUSTIG:

I feel about it like—I feel wonderfully about it. Really, it gave me a chance to live the way I wanted to live and achieve, you know, so—and it wasn't always under good circumstances either, going through a Depression and everything.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

And starting without any financial backing. I was on my own. Yep.

LEVINE:

Now, we were talking when we had our little break there about—why don't you talk about—you had the awful experience at Ellis Island, being treated like an—an object. And then you were picked up by your uncle?

LUSTIG:

No, no, no. By—by one of the Quakers.

LEVINE:

One of the Quakers, that's right.

LUSTIG:

Yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

One of the Quakers. Well, tell about that. What—what happened? When you left, you reunited with your father.

LUSTIG:

Yeah, okay. We were—finally, we got off the ship and got reunited with my father and we stayed in this cheap hotel overnight. He was looking for this Mr. [unclear], who had come across, and his wife and kids. And I remember that morning, the breakfast that I had in this hotel. Had—

LEVINE:

Now, by any chance, is this a hotel in Manhattan? In New York City?

LUSTIG:

Yeah, we stayed overnight in this cheap hotel or a rooming house or something like that. Right.

LEVINE:

Okay, uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

On the waterfront. And in—for breakfast, I had corn flakes with rich, cold milk. You know what I mean? White sugar, and a cut-up banana on it. [Chuckles] I mean, as in that ship, this was—this was the ultimate meal that you could get. And honestly, to this day, it is still my favorite breakfast. Still my favorite breakfast. [Chuckles] If—I have been keeping a journal, so to speak, since 1976, I guess. And sometimes I read back and whenever I come to the breakfast, it always says, "Once again, I'm having cold breakfast, corn flakes, a banana and milk." [Chuckles] So then, after that breakfast, we got on board a train from New York City to Philadelphia and got to Philadelphia. And there this Mr. Hayes, the elder Quaker, met us with his 1922 Willis Knight touring car and took us the 30-some miles through this beautiful country to the Greenlawn Farm south of Westchester in Pennsylvania. Right.

LEVINE:

Greenlawn?

LUSTIG:

Yes, Greenlawn Farm.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And this Greenlawn Farm now has become a national historic farm.

LEVINE:

Oh.

LUSTIG:

Yes. [Chuckles] And the mill, to which we used to take our grain there, what we ground up for the feed for the cows and—and also, my mother made bread of the—the grain that we grew and had ground in that Embreeville farm—Embreeville mill. And that has become a national historic site. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Wow. Now, how did you feel being driven in this car, having been through everything in Russia and—and the ship and Ellis Island?

LUSTIG:

Well, it was almost like a dream. Honestly, it was almost like a dream until you got settled into things and realized we did—this is a reality. We're not dreaming this. It was an ultimate thing all the way. Ultimate thing all the way, slightly spoiled by the measles, which I contracted.

LEVINE:

Oh, right.

LUSTIG:

Right.

LEVINE:

Now, what were your—what are or were your children's names?

LUSTIG:

My children—I have two children. [Chuckles] Elizabeth Joan— Elizabeth Joan Lustig is my daughter and George Edward Lustig is my son. My daughter was born in 1946 so she is now about 52. And my son was born in '48 so he's 50 or 51.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

My daughter now is—she taught school in Tom's River here— that's the next town from here—for 17 years. And then she got a job in the Teacher's Union to negotiate between the teachers and the school boards for contracts. And she's still doing that and she loves it. It's all different hours. Sometimes she may work all night. But it isn't that everyday, steady thing, and all kinds of challenges are to be met.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And my son, he and his lady friend just built a new home in Millville, New Jersey—that's 75 miles south of here—fronting on the famous Morris River down there. And they are in a little paradise, finally. [Chuckles] He works for EV [ph] Engineering. And my daughter has a degree from the University of New Hampshire. My son quit school when he was 16 [Chuckles], just couldn't—couldn't go along with all the useless stuff they were trying to teach him. He worked for two years, then went back to school in Pennsylvania and got a—a diploma from the Pennsylvania Commonwealth schools, and then signed up for a three-year course with the Philco Ford Technical School and finished that, commuting 40 miles every day, never missed a day in three years. [Chuckles] So he is technically auto and mechanically and electrically oriented and now is working for EV Engineering. It's an engineering company that specializes in vacuum systems.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

Right.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. [Clears throat]

LUSTIG:

Well, I got—[Chuckles]

LEVINE:

[Chuckles] Ah—

LUSTIG:

Getting tired, Jean?

LEVINE:

Yeah, I—oh, I know what I wanted to ask you.

LUSTIG:

Oh.

LEVINE:

What—do you think you passed on any attitudes or ideas of living to your children that you got from your mother and father?

LUSTIG:

[Sniffs] Well, that's not an easy question to ask, but I—I imagine that automat—automatically, I have. Yes.

LEVINE:

Can you think of any, like, values that you tried to ingrain in your—

LUSTIG:

Well—

LEVINE:

—children or have them—

LUSTIG:

My children were fortunate enough to still know my—my father and my mother. And they had spent time with them and all that. They were very close, so that my mother and father were able to instill in them certain qualities that they certainly have to this day.

LEVINE:

Like what?

LUSTIG:

Well, honesty, interest in things, a—showing appreciation for things. Maybe right now I won't find exactly the right words, but a general attitude towards a healthy, productive and giving life. This— this is about it. Because over there they were—came by that almost instinctively because of the educations that they got and exposure to the different countries. My—my grandmother on my mother's side, she was part English and she spent a lot of time in England. She spoke perfect English. In fact, she taught my dad English over there in Russia. He—he had—was very fluent in English, yes.

LEVINE:

It sounds like your mother and father really adapted very readily to very hard work.

LUSTIG:

Yes, unbelievably.

LEVINE:

Whereas before, they probably didn't have to work.

LUSTIG:

It never ceased—ceased to amaze me what a flexible creature a human being is, to go from the—the most luxurious type of living to the basics of life and do it, accept it and succeed.

LEVINE:

I—I—I want to ask you a question that I don't usually ask. But you've had such an incredible life that I'll ask it anyway. [Laughter]

LUSTIG:

Go ahead.

LEVINE:

I mean, what are the kinds of lessons or the life—what—what— what kinds of things have you learned in—in having such an incredibly different and diverse set of life experiences? I mean, are there any kinds of things that, like, you've learned that you could actually articulate about people or life or change or—

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm. Well, let me think. Let me think.

LEVINE:

Yeah, take your time.

LUSTIG:

That's—that's not—

LEVINE:

That's not an easy question.

LUSTIG:

That's not [Chuckles]—

LEVINE:

It's a big question but—

LUSTIG:

—not an easy question to answer. But I would ask you actually to repeat again exactly what would you like to—

LEVINE:

Well, I was just thinking about, you know, you said you kept a journal and you've probably reflected on all these—

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

—adventures and experiences.

LUSTIG:

Right.

LEVINE:

The kinds of things that you've formulated about life and about living—

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

—and about learning and about people and about—

LUSTIG:

Right. Well, I—I always, I mean, so to speak, pushed forth the joy of living. No matter how rough things were and all, I would always find something worthwhile to live for and give and associate, you know, and always—I always tried to keep myself uninhibited and as free as possible, [Laughs] and never hesitate to do things that I think I can do. And—and I—especially after being in the service where you had to constantly wait all the time—wait for something and never do anything, I said, "Once I get out of the service, I'm not waiting in line for anything. I just want to do things that I can touch and do and feel and achieve." And I never hesitated to change a job to achieve just that. And I had—and all my life I had several jobs. There was only one where I made a mistake. And that was I left All-States Engineering Company, which used to send me all over. And I did very interesting work after the war, like the mass production of the atomic bomb, the first nuclear powered submarine, the famous radar camera and the—the latest in steam turbines, like for DeLavalle [ph] that farmed me out. A—and then even special refined steel manufacturing processes and all that. So I would be sent to different places and we would maybe be in New York, and the kids were getting to the school age. And we didn't want to move around, so I decided and took a job here in Tom's River in Tom's River Chemical Corporation, which was actually—the mother company for that was from Sweden—not Sweden. Switzerland, right. And I spent three terrible years there. The—the conditions were good. The benefits were excellent and everything else. But you were—you did what you were told. You could not give of yourself. You just performed things that you were told to do and how to do it. It was run mostly by arrogant Germans, who were confined in time of war to general aniline plants, chemical plants and all that. So finally, my dear Flossie says, "Georgie Boy, if you don't quit this job, I'm leaving you," [Chuckles] because I was becoming a nervous wreck and couldn't think free and all. And at the same time, I got an offer of a job in Wheaton [PH] Glass Worldwide in Millville. It's south of here in New Jersey. They were starting up an engineering department that they would engineer for other companies and do the stuff in-house and so forth. And it wouldn't require any—any, you know, changing—

LEVINE:

Moving around.

LUSTIG:

Yeah, moving around. So I took that job. And—but we did move temporarily to the small village of Newfield, which is probably, maybe, I don't know, 60 miles, 70 miles from here. And—and I worked there for Wheaton Glass worldwide [Chuckles] until a local company, Garvey Corporation, lured me away from there [Chuckles] to start up an engineering department in their company.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

And which I undertook. And I did do that and it was a challenge and—and I finally retired from there, gradually. I—I took the job with them. I said, "Only if you let me retire gradually." And—and they did. I went from a full week to three days and then for one day a week for maybe four or five years.

LEVINE:

Ah.

LUSTIG:

And I'm still in good contact with them and we're friends. And the association continues. [Chuckles]

LEVINE:

Good. END OF TAPE 2, SIDE A BEGIN TAPE 2, SIDE B

LEVINE:

Good. Well, I think, before we close, I would like to hear the story of the fish.

LUSTIG:

The what?

LEVINE:

The story of the fish.

LUSTIG:

Oh. The story of the fish.

LEVINE:

The fish that's over your mantelpiece. And also I would like you to--when you're telling the story. [Chuckles] I'd like you to—to—to say what kinds of thinking or feeling motivated what you did—

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

—in and around the fish.

LUSTIG:

Okay, I will do that. When I worked for Wheaton Glass and then even for the Garvey Corporation, we lived in the small village of Newfield, New Jersey. And it was the time when the boys and girls were growing up. They were getting into drugs and everything. And [Clears throat] I had a lot of friends there who were teenagers. And being that I was interested in cars, I had some contact there, and being interested in nature and so forth, so that my wife and I were able to get a lot of these kids interested in—in—in nature and other useful things that—that they could get—delve into and see the results of what they do and everything like that. So one of the boys there, Anthony Van Hook, he was a little wild and he was sniffing glue and everything. And my wife used to bring him in, put his head under a faucet [Chuckles] until—and became friends with him and all. And I got him interested in hunting and fishing and nature in general, right. So [Chuckles]—so that—well, I mean, that could be a very lengthy thing. But anyway, old Tony, then he was an ardent outdoorsman. And then he had a misfortune. He was standing at a red light and somebody rammed into the side of him. And he was seriously injured so that he was in a wheelchair and people said he would never walk again. But he was a persistent kid. And I used to take him hunting and fishing in the wheelchair and all. And he survived it and became articulate, so to speak. But he had this hang up so eventually he went into skydiving to break himself loose, and he did manage to do that. And he got married and had kids and took his wife and his kids on some wild canoe trips in Ontario, Canada where he met guides that said he would never return. But he did it all with the little kids and all. And I even have copies of her journal [Chuckles] for that. And [Clears throat] eventually, in Ontario, things got too crowded for him because of the Yankee sports, so to speak. And he was looking at a map of Manitoba and saw where the road ended at Lind Lake [PH], a small village there in Manitoba. And he used to go up there with his family and they hacked out a rough campsite on Lake McMillan [PH] on a 10-mile island. And eventually, they bought a bungalow in Lind Lake. And ever since they bought a bungalow, he was after me for three years now to come up. He wanted to, somehow, to repay me and my wife for what we had done for him in his youth. So they came here one day. I think it was last March. And I invited Jean to l—listen in on this. And they brought tapes from what they did up there and everything and all that. And he always called me "Mr. L." and I called him "Hookey"—Van Hook. [Chuckles] And Jean just told me, "George, you can't let him down." I—so I told Jean—I said, "Okay. You make the travel arrangements and be traveling companion and then maybe I'll go." But first, I had signed up for [Chuckles]—I have other interests in cars too, in antique cars. And I had signed up for the New England 1000- Mile Rally that was in May. So I told Hookey, "If I survive this rally, then I will try to get to Lind Lake." And so in—in August, Jean had made all the arrangements. We had the leisure van take us to Newark. From Newark, we flew to Toronto. From Toronto, we flew to Winnipeg. From Winnipeg, a smaller-prop plane to Thompson, and that's the last big outpost in north—in northern Manitoba. Manitoba is exactly opposite Minnesota, north of Minnesota. And there, we stayed overnight and the next day they met us in their pickup truck. And four of us on the front seat of a pickup with a—the record high temperature of 96 degrees, 210 miles on a gravel dirt road to Lind Lake. [Laughs] And let me tell you. Of course, we got into fishing and everything like that. We went— one of the things he had to do, we went to this—they had a use of this cabin on this Lake McMillan no less. So that was another 43 miles on a smaller dirt road. Then he had a couple of small boats there with outboards, 12 miles by water on Coswos [PH] Lake to a portage where we portaged across a neck, so to speak and to—into McMillan Lake. And from there, it was only three and a half more miles to this cabin. So anyway, we—we—we got to the cabin and we stayed there. And the cabin had one modern thing, so to speak. [Chuckles] In the corner of the cabin there was a winch. Like in the old days, you'd lift a bucket from a well. And that was a post with round shelves. You put all your perishables on that and you load it into the permafrost.

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

[Laughs] And that was the only improvement. And you could drink the water right out of the—[Chuckles] okay. You're pointing to the fish. Wait a minute. [Laughs] So anyway, we stayed there and, of course, went fishing. And the fishing was fabulous there. And what do you want me to say about this? Oh, and—oh, yes, yes, yes. So actually, I caught this fish, which qualified me for the Manitoba—I forget the exact way-- Proficient Angler?

JEAN G:

Master angler.

LUSTIG:

Master Angler Award, no less. [Chuckles] And he gave me a medal to put on and things like that. They're very personal up there. Right?

LEVINE:

What kind of a fish?

LUSTIG:

It's a northern pike. Northern pike.

LEVINE:

And how big?

LUSTIG:

About 41 ¼ inches. [Chuckles] It's not a record size but it—a certain size, you qualify for that.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

LUSTIG:

So, I mean, this is the biggest fish I ever caught, you know, and—and the fishing up there was fabulous. But that was only the icing on the cake. Just to—to be there with Hookey and how elated he was that I actually got there. I mean, we could tell you more about Lind Lake and it—it was an experience. You plunged into a different life. The people are different there. We got acquainted with people. Oh, right now, my mind isn't working too good. But it—it was a super experience. All those towns up there are usually—ex—exist or are created because of some kind of small mine. They mine different metals there that are alloyed with steel and so forth. And sometimes a mine would peter out and that town—particular town would be almost dead, then another one. So meanwhile, in Lind Lake, they made a little new discovery. And in Sharad [PH], 140 miles away, the mine died out so they brought, I think, 30 bungalows.

JEAN G:

162 or something like that.

LUSTIG:

162.

JEAN G:

Buildings across—

LUSTIG:

Buildings, 150 miles away by frozen lakes and rivers with bulldozers. There's no roads up there, and increased the size of Lind Lake. And they have one of these bungalows that they bought and they live in that. Now, some of them are boarded up because the Lind Lake mine is dying. And we met the people who brought—this wasn't that long ago. In 1952, they were brought over. So we met the people who brought these, actually, and all their experience. Oh! I tell you.

LEVINE:

Tell me, in summary, why—why that trip was so important to you.

LUSTIG:

because—because of Tony Van Hook. He had to get me up there to show me his dream, because he knows how much I like nature. I had— when, even in New Jersey with him, we did some crazy things of exploration in the pines and whatnot. We had [Chuckles] some wild experiences. To him, this was an achievement and he just had to give it to me. Right.

JEAN G:

It was a thank you.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

LUSTIG:

Yeah. And it—just got the Christmas card from him. He said, finally he saw me in the bow of his boat. And the way he said everything, it is—you can tell that—that to him, that meant the whole thing, really. As I say, fishing was only icing on the cake but—

LEVINE:

Yeah.

LUSTIG:

But the meaning of the whole thing, to be together and he and I went out alone up there fishing too, you know, and we really plunged back into what we did in Jersey and everything. There's some unbelievable things happened, like, you take in this new field, the kids, they would be all interested in hunting. But they weren't true sportsmen. They would shoot anything that sat or moved or anything-- you know what I mean? And I introduced them to hunt over a bird dog. And you would be surprised what a difference that made. Now, they were true sportsmen. They did not dare shoot anything, except what the dog pointed and flushed, and only in the air. You know what I mean?

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And that changed their concept in accepting things completely. And they all became super sportsmen. They had their own dogs. They are actually, at least to a great degree, conservationists and no longer out there to kill as much as they can. They're out there for the particular experience, you know.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And the dog can do that—

LEVINE:

Hmm.

LUSTIG:

—to a bunch of people. Yeah.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, is there anything that you would like to say, in closing, about coming to this country, your family coming to this country?

LUSTIG:

About what?

LEVINE:

Coming to this country or your family coming to the country.

LUSTIG:

Uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

Living out a long and interesting life here.

LUSTIG:

I—I would say that it—it—most of it was destiny or something to make it all come out the way it did. It—I am so grateful for the whole thing, for the rich life, for me able to give of myself when I could and so forth. You know?

LEVINE:

Oh.

LUSTIG:

It's been a—a super rich and interesting life, of course, with frustrations and good times and everything. But in general, it—it is like—almost, to me, it's like a miracle. I had physical problems, which I overcame, or they overcame themselves and everything. And—and here I am, at 85—

LEVINE:

Looking a lot younger.

LUSTIG:

—still—still getting into things. I still ride my bike on the trails, you know. I'm still involved in—in four clubs. I belong to the Ocean, Nature and Conservation Society along with Jean.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

LUSTIG:

And then I [Chuckles]—I belong to the Vintage Sports Car Club of America, no less. And I have a couple of antique cars. And I still vintage race [Chuckles] and—and—and rallies and things like that, you know. And I also belong to the Pinelands [PH] Antique Engine Association, where we acquire and restore antique engines, which were opening a new era, replacing hand labor and horses with these different gas engines, steam engines and diesel engines—were invented to do the jobs that were done by horses, by human hands and so forth. And we get old ones. We restore them and then we have shows, like in Batsto down there where we actually apply and have these engines doing at the show what they were designed to do, you know. So I'm involved in that too. Right. And then I also belong to the Vintage Automobile Club of Ocean County. When my wife was alive, we restored the car, an American Crosley Hotshot, what it's called. And we joined that club and we were very active in it. In fact, we got—we were all—the oldest people in a club but we got first place at least five times for activities. You know, for doing the most. A lot of interesting things. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I'm getting mixed up now, getting tired.

LEVINE:

Wonderful. I—I think this is a good place to close. It's obvious that you still have a lot of things you're interested and are doing.

LUSTIG:

Any other little thing you want me to say, Jean? No, okay.

LEVINE:

[Chuckles]

LUSTIG:

Okay.

LEVINE:

Yeah. We thank—

LUSTIG:

because I—I feel if I continue, I will not say it properly, you know.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, I think this has been a most interesting interview. I thank you so much.

LUSTIG:

[Chuckles] Well, I'm glad that at least I was able—able to give you something.

LEVINE:

It's wonderful. Okay. I've been speaking with George Lustig and this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service on January 12th, 1999. And we're here in Lakewood, New Jersey, signing off. END OF INTERVIEW EI-1035/LUSTIG 1