LEVINE:

Today is March the eleventh, 1999, and I'm here in Largo, Florida with Hulda Wollmann, who came from Germany in 1922, when she was nineteen years of age. She came on the S.S. America. And at the time of this interview, Mrs. Wollman is ninety-six years of age, about to turn ninety-seven next month. And this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service. Okay, if you would start, pleas, by saying again your birth date, and where in Germany you're from?

WOLLMANN:

My birthday is April 8 th , 1902. And then born in Pompickin [PH], [unclear], in Ossbreissen.

LEVINE:

Okay, and that's East Prussia?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, okay, and did you live in Pompickin up until you left Germany?

WOLLMANN:

No. I was in — it was [pause] [German]. Shmooditten on Trouteenin [PH] was the village where I went to school.

LEVINE:

Okay, when you went to school, did you live there, or did you go back?

WOLLMANN:

I had to walk about two kilo — two kilometers. Well, it's the kilometers there, but I don't know, it's about a half a mile, or a mile.

LEVINE:

Okay, now what was your father's name?

WOLLMANN:

My father's name was Gustav.

LEVINE:

And your mother's name?

WOLLMANN:

Amalia.

LEVINE:

Amalia. And here maiden name?

WOLLMANN:

Here maiden name was Kohs.

LEVINE:

K, is it K-L-A-U-S?

WOLLMANN:

K-O-L-S. No, K-O-H-S.

LEVINE:

K-O-H-S, okay. And did you have brothers and sisters?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah, I am the youngest, and I got a brother; he was fifteen years older, and I had a sister thirteen years older, and one sister four and a half years older. So I was the youngest.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, uh-huh. And did you have grandparents who lived around where you lived in Germany?

WOLLMANN:

Well, I never met my grandparents. All his family was in Russia, and he was born in Russia, my husband.

LEVINE:

When you came here, were you already married?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah, I married just about two weeks before we was coming here.

LEVINE:

Okay, now how about your family, on your mother's side, and on your father's side? Were they from the same area, from East Prussia, going back?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah, they was from East Prussia, and they all had [pause] a farm.

LEVINE:

A farm?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah, where they was living.

LEVINE:

I see. So your father was a farmer?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And how about your mother? Did she help on the farm?

WOLLMANN:

No, she didn't have to help. We had about four families that was working for us, that lived in their own homes, the homes we owned, too.

LEVINE:

Oh.

WOLLMANN:

And they was working for us.

LEVINE:

I see. I see. So your father employed other people on the farm?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah, he did.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, and what kind of a farm was it?

WOLLMANN:

Well, he had about twenty-five cows, and I don't know how many calves. But fourteen horses, and we had sheeps, we had pigs, we had chicken, geese, ducks. We had around seventy!

LEVINE:

[Laughs] So did you grow things, too, or was it mostly live — it was livestock. But did you grow crops?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah, but we had the help that was doing the work for us. My father just told them what to do, and then they did it. And they — my father paid them for that. They was employed on us.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, now did your grandfather have the farm before your father?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah, but that was not where we was living. That was farther. Well, he had not really a farm; it was seven acres. Just a orchard.

LEVINE:

Oh, what kind of orchard?

WOLLMANN:

All kind of fruit, only he was selling that. There was a train not too far away, and he was selling the fruit.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Do you remember that grandfather?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah, my parents sometimes took me down to visit them, with the horse and buggy. We didn't have no car then; we used to have the horses, horses, and nice buggy for riding around.

LEVINE:

What do you remember about that grandfather who had the orchard with the fruit?

WOLLMANN:

Well, I can't remember too much from him. [Unclear], he was a tall man, and she was just a little lady. But they had nine children, and my father was the oldest!

LEVINE:

Mm-hmm. Do you remember any kinds of experiences when you visited your grandparents in the orchard?

WOLLMANN:

Yeah, well, it was just for one day, just to visit.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, uh-huh.

WOLLMANN:

There was a [unclear] in the yard, and there was a big dog, and he was coming from the back, and he was holding, lifting himself up, and put his paws on his shoulder! I was twelve years old, and I couldn't move! I had to call for help! But he was friendly; he wasn't a mad dog. It was a friendly dog, but the way he did it, I couldn't move. [Unclear] a big dog!

LEVINE:

Huh.

WOLLMANN:

He was like the dog over there on that picture.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

WOLLMANN:

I think, yeah, there's the picture with the girl, isn't it?

LEVINE:

I can't see it.

WOLLMANN:

No?

LEVINE:

We'll look —

WOLLMANN:

Oh, no, I got that in my bedroom.

LEVINE:

Oh, uh-huh. Well, how did they treat you, your grandmother and grandfather? How do you remember them? What kind of people--?

WOLLMANN:

Well, we was only there for a visit, and had that one meeting there. And then we went back home. We had a buggy, and we didn't go by the train. But then later on, I traveled by the train, too, later on. Then my parents — I guess sister was eleven, and they had a train.

LEVINE:

And how about the other set of grandparents, on your mother's side? Do you remember them?

WOLLMANN:

No, I don't remember them. And I think I never saw them.

LEVINE:

Did you have aunts and uncles? Did you have cousins? Did you have other family?

WOLLMANN:

Oh, yeah, I had cousins. I still have the niece, my daughter's daughter. She's still living in [unclear], and she comes, they come and visit me once in a while. That's about the only one, I guess, that's alive. There's other ones; they're all dead.

LEVINE:

Could you describe the farm you grew up on?

WOLLMANN:

Well, it was a nice big farm, and well, we had nothing to do with the farm. We had help that did all the work, and my father told them what to do. And he had all kind of machineries, too, for the farm. So it was a nice big farm, a nice house. I don't know if it's still there. They had a big number on the top on the front of the house, 1910. That's when the house was built.

LEVINE:

What was it made out of?

WOLLMAN:

It was a block house, [unclear], like this house.

LEVINE:

Like, cement block?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, it was — it was more —

LEVINE:

Stone?

WOLLMAN:

I think it was brick, and then it had — what they call it now? Like, we have that, around the outside?

LEVINE:

Stucco?

WOLLMAN:

Stucco, yeah.

LEVINE:

Oh. And was it just--?

WOLLMAN:

It was a really big house. It had about nine rooms, and then it had a big, big room, what they called it sale. They only used it when we had company, if we was dancing in it, and had a piano there. It was a nice home.

LEVINE:

When would you have company? What kinds of occasions would you have people, when you would use that salle?

WOLLMAN:

I just — relatives was coming over once in a while, and we had a little party. And we had a piano; somebody was playing piano.

LEVINE:

Were people pretty musical in your family?

WOLLMAN:

No. My father had a violin, but he couldn't play much. But he made — he repaired brass instruments.

LEVINE:

On!

WOLLMAN:

Any brass instrument he could repair.

LEVINE:

And did he do that at home?

WOLLMAN:

No, in the beginning he was working for, I think the company's still Rauges Musik [PH].

LEVINE:

What is it?

WOLLMAN:

Rauges Musik. They had this store here — no, that was not here in Florida; that was in Cleveland. They had a store there. And he was working for that company, repairing brass instruments.

LEVINE:

And then, that was before he went to work on the farm, or at the same time?

WOLLMAN:

Well, that was my father worked on the farm, when I was young. And when I was married, my husband, he didn't work on the farm.

LEVINE:

Oh, your husband repaired the brass instruments?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Oh, okay.

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, it was my husband that repaired the brass instruments.

LEVINE:

I see. Now, did you go to school?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I went to school. I just went to eighth grade, and then they had no high school there, so I had a monthly pass to go over the train to the city, and I had classes in the city. I had sewing classes; I made a dress. And I had carving class. I was carving wood, big bench or little music box. So —

LEVINE:

Did you like going into the city to school, on the train?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I had a monthly pass. I could go every day, but I didn't go every day. I only went twice a week.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

WOLLMAN:

But I had a monthly school pass — school pass.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, now did you have chores around the house that you had to do?

WOLLMAN:

No. My mother, she had a cook, and she had a lady that was taking care of the house, cleaning the house.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, and then —

WOLLMAN:

So I had a good life.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. What did you do for enjoyment, growing up?

WOLLMAN:

Well, I went to a dancing school, and we had once in a while a party there, and I went to that. I learned how to dance, and there was a teacher coming out there, but I don't know how many times a week.

LEVINE:

Were there children your age around where you lived?

WOLLMAN:

No, the village where I was living there was only four farmers, and they had not little children.

LEVINE:

But when you went on the train, into the high school, then were you with children your own age?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, well those, that I met there, then I was about sixteen or seventeen already then. I met some friends there. So —

LEVINE:

Did you ever expect that you would be working? Did you prepare yourself to do anything that would be working at?

WOLLMAN:

No, my father never said that we had to work, but he sent my sister that was four and a half years older to a — they call it house hartem school [PH]. You stayed there; that was in Vaylau [PH]. You stayed there for a whole year, and they learned you everything that you need for your life, for keeping house, and bookkeeping, and everything. And she was there for one year, and then the war started. And I was supposed to go down there, too. And then, when the war ended, my father couldn't send me no more. But I got married; I married then. So I didn't go to that house hartem school.

LEVINE:

What was it called — house?

WOLLMAN:

House hartem school. You learn — it was in Vaylau, a big city in Ossbreissen. And you stayed there, you boarded there for the whole year.

LEVINE:

Yeah, I was trying to catch the name of it. House what?

WOLLMAN:

Hartem school.

LEVINE:

Hartin?

WOLLMAN:

House hartem school.

LEVINE:

House hartem school. So was that typical?

WOLLMAN:

That was nice, but only my daughter went — my sister went there. But I married, so I couldn't go no more. And then with the war, they had it for two years, they didn't have it. And then when they had it again, you started with it, then that's when I got married. So —

LEVINE:

And when — how did you meet your husband?

WOLLMAN:

Well, my husband was coming to America in 1913. And then 1921 he was coming to Germany for a visit. And that — and he was coming to my neighbor. And then we met, and we liked each other, and we got married. And then I went back with him. Well, he didn't like Germany; it was not nice then. It was when — when it was [unclear], my husband, he lost fifty thousand [unclear] and German marks. And the German mark was worthless. Couldn't get nothing for it. And then later on, they got another mark that was worth again some. But lots of people, they lost lots of money.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. Do you remember World War One? Do you remember any experiences that you had?

WOLLMAN:

What?

LEVINE:

World War One? Do you remember any experiences that you personally had?

WOLLMAN:

No, only once we had to leave our home, and those when — it was when the Russians coming in.

LEVINE:

And where did you go?

WOLLMAN:

Well, we packed our things, and a big, like there was a big, what they use on the farm and things like that. We made a tent over it. It was like [unclear], a wagon train, or what they call it. And we packed that full, and we left home. But we didn't go too far. Then we was coming back, and those from the war — not from the war, from the war, it was close to Russia. They was coming, and they stayed where we was living. And they killed all our chickens, and used all our wood that we had cut up. And made themselves at home in our place! So when we coming back, there was no chickens no more, and everything was gone. And my father, he always ordered wine by the case, and he didn't even have a taste from it. He put it in the attic, in the smoke house there, smoking coming. And everything was gone; they always was drinking it all out, those that was coming, was living closer to the border. They stayed in our place, and killed all our chickens, and was drinking all this wine. So that's the way it was.

LEVINE:

So they had left by the time you came back?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, and they went back, and we went back to the house, and everything was all right. [Unclear] from the farmers that worked for us, he had a key from our house, and the Russians was coming. And they want the key from the house; they wanted to go in the house. And he didn't give them the key. He was throwing the key over the — over the building. So they get in the house.

LEVINE:

So what did they do? Did they break their way in?

WOLLMAN:

No, they left to another place.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

WOLLMAN:

They were saying they would come at night and burn the house down. But then the Germans was coming, and chased them back. So they couldn't do no damage to the house. That's the way it was in the war.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Did you see soldiers? Did you have any encounters with soldiers during that time?

WOLLMAN:

Well, my brother was a soldier. He was working — he was in the war, and he got wounded to, [unclear]. He was in the hospital, and I was visiting him in the hospital. He — early in the morning he was standing outside and was cleaning the kennel, and it was not too far from the border, from where the Russians was living. And they saw him standing there, and he got the first shot into his arm, close to his heart, he had this bullet. They never took the bullet out. It was too close to the heart. They didn't operate at that time that close to the heart. So, but and he got better, well, maybe that bullet — they were saying the bullet was too close. They had to wait until it's farther away from the heart. But he died young [unclear]. He was only, I think, forty-one when he died.

LEVINE:

Well now, your husband — where was he coming from?

WOLLMAN:

My husband was born in Russia.

LEVINE:

And, but he was German?

WOLLMAN:

He was German, yeah, but his parents, instead of coming, like me, to Florida, they was going to Russia. I mean, from Russia they was coming to Germany, and stayed in Germany.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. What part of Russia? Do you know what part he was from?

WOLLMAN:

[Unclear] White Russia; I don't know. It was not too far from the border there, they had a home.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

WOLLMAN:

But then when he was about twenty-one he left home, and was going to America with another friend.

LEVINE:

Now, did he work with brass instruments in America when he was here?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, he started that.

LEVINE:

Oh, that's where he started?

WOLLMAN:

Uh-hmm.

LEVINE:

And what did he tell you about America, before you had ever come here? What did you expect?

WOLLMAN:

Well, he was coming once for a visit, and then we met, and we got married. And he really didn't want to stay there, where he was in. He didn't like it there in Germany, where the money was worthless. The money was not worth much. And later on they changed the worthless money to good money again. But then, he was saying it was nice in America, and girls there, they are very nice there. And got a good life there. So, he told me that it was very nice to live here.

LEVINE:

And did you want to come to America?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I liked my husband, and he wanted to go to America, so I went with him.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh, uh-huh. Well, what was it about him that you were willing to travel across the ocean, and change your life?

WOLLMAN:

Well, when you like each other, you like to go where the person goes.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So did you have a wedding before you left?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, we had a nice wedding. My father gave us a nice wedding.

LEVINE:

Was it in the house?

WOLLMAN:

It was in the house, yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

WOLLMAN:

But we couldn't take no pictures. That time, we didn't have no cameras. First later on they was coming and they took cameras. At that time, there just, we just didn't have no cameras. Later on we got those big box cameras.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. Did you know anybody else who had come to America before you came?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, there was friends, but it was not from my side, it was from my husband's side, friends he knew in Russia. Lots of them, they was going to America, too. And we rented the house close where they was living, and so [unclear] was talking German, even in the grocery store. There was a grocery store not too far away from where we was living, and they talked German.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

WOLLMAN:

And those friends what he had, what was coming from Russia, they was not too far from where we was living, so I had lots of friends there.

LEVINE:

I see. How did your mother and father feel about your getting married? Were they in favor?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah. They didn't have nothing against it, so it was my will to get married, so they left, left it to me.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. So do you remember leaving, leaving your house, and starting towards the port where you'd take the ship?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I had big trunk, and [unclear], then we went to the train to Bremen. That's where we got the ship. The second time when I was coming — I was coming once to America [pause], then I was coming in the plane.

LEVINE:

Oh.

WOLLMAN:

It was 1959. I wanted to see my mother once more, and she wants to see me, too, where I was her youngest child. And so [pause] I went, 1959.

LEVINE:

What was the hardest thing about leaving, leaving Germany, for you?

WOLLMAN:

Oh, well really it was not hard. I enjoyed it, enjoyed the trip, and I enjoyed my — living with my husband. We had a good life. We was married sixty-three years.

LEVINE:

Wow, uh-hmm. So, let's see. So you left, and you traveled to Bremen, and did you have to stay for a while before you took--?

WOLLMAN:

Well, we had to stay a few days before the ship was ready to go to America. So, but that's not too long, maybe three, four days, we had to stay there, and wait for the ship to leave.

LEVINE:

Now had you been, ever been in such a big city as Bremen before you--?

WOLLMAN:

Well, Kaynigsburg [PH] was not too far from us; it was thirty-five kilometers, [unclear] miles. And that's for — it's a pretty big city.

LEVINE:

How would you describe yourself as a nineteen year old girl, before you left Germany? What were you like? What was your temperament? What was your--?

WOLLMAN:

Well, I enjoyed life, and I enjoyed going to those classes in the big city. I had learned how to sew, and I learned how to carve, and things like that. I carved a few things. And I was sewing. I had to sew a dress, and a blouse. And I enjoyed life.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm, so you were really learning how to be a good homemaker--?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

--for your own home, uh-huh?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah. END OF SIDE A BEGIN SIDE B

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I had my mother did the cooking, and she baked bread, but I — I had to go to my brother's place. He had no wife, and he needed somebody to take care of the house. So I was there for a few months. And, as far as cooking there, and learned how to bake bread. And then my mother went back again, and stayed there for a few months, 'til he got married. And then he got married, and we didn't have to go and take care of his place. He had a farm, and we had to take care of the house.

LEVINE:

Is this the brother who was wounded?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I had only one brother.

LEVINE:

Oh, uh-huh.

WOLLMAN:

One brother and two sisters.

LEVINE:

Two sisters, uh-huh. So, he had — he had a farm. Did he have the farm that your grandfather had?

WOLLMAN:

No, no.

LEVINE:

No, he had another one?

WOLLMAN:

No, he got himself a farm someplace.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. Now, was this an orchard, or was it livestock?

WOLLMAN:

A regular farm, with all kinds of animals and plants that you — plantings.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. At that point, were parents arranging people's marriages? In other words —

WOLLMAN:

No, we could marry who else we wanted; they didn't interfere. No, I think that's not good when you interfere, and somebody loves someone and wants to get married. They should let them get married.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. So were you an adventurous spirit? Were you looking forward to a new life? Or how did you face coming here?

WOLLMAN:

Well, my husband told me everything about here, how nice it was, and they treated girls so nice here, and [unclear], very, very nice. Nice living there. And so, and then friends from my husband's side gave us, going to — coming to America, [unclear] had homes not too far from where we were staying, so we had friends to visit.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. Now, do you remember when the ship came into the New York Harbor?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I remember it. I was standing there, and I saw my trunk go up in the air, to be — to go to the ship, to put in the right place.

LEVINE:

And how about, did you see the Statue of Liberty when the ship came into New York?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I saw that more than once. I saw it when I went back to Germany for a visit, and then when I went not too long ago. Friends was driving. He was living in New Jersey, and he took us where the Statue of Liberty is, to see that, and to go to the building, and see that again. So that was very nice.

LEVINE:

Did you know what it was when you first came? Had you heard about it?

WOLLMAN:

Well, my husband told me all about it, how nice it is in America. In Germany, at that time it was not very good. Money what they had was worthless, and then they couldn't buy much with the money. You need lots of money, and get very little food for it. The money was not good at all! So then later on, the money got worthless, and then it was coming out with money that you could get something for. So then it was better. But lots of people lost their money, the money they had, and they had to start all new again.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. So when you got to New York, did you go to Ellis Island then?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, when I was coming here for the first time, we had to stop there.

LEVINE:

And what do you remember about that?

WOLLMAN:

Well, they went with the ship to that Ellis Island, and they examined us, if we was healthy, and through our hair. And we had to take the clothes off to the waist, and gave us a good check up. And then they, [unclear], they gave us a bag with lunch, and then after that we got to go wherever we was planning to go.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. Now had your husband become a citizen by then?

WOLLMAN:

Not right away.

LEVINE:

No.

WOLLMAN:

It was later on. When he was citizen when we married, I would be a citizen, too.

LEVINE:

Right, right.

WOLLMAN:

But then we have not this — we have to have two papers; he had only one. Then first, later on, he went for his citizen paper, and then I had to go to school and learn.

LEVINE:

So when you got off of Ellis Island, did you go to a train station?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, we went to New York, and then from New York we was coming to Cleveland. That's where my husband bought the five family. He was there and bought. And they took us in. They had a home in the back, a little house. It was a really nice house, too. And it was rented, but they told the renter to — they had to move out. And then they let us move in there.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So who was here of your husband's family?

WOLLMAN:

My husband's family?

LEVINE:

Were they in Cleveland? Did he have other family members?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, he let a brother come in. He sent him the ship's card. And, but then the brother, he died in an accident years later. And his wife and his children, well, they didn't stay here. They, one son, he moved to Fort Lauderdale. He died lately. And then some sons, they was more on the other coast. And there was one in the — one daughter from him. She's still in Reno, and we still get in touch with her. We write each other. And, so--

LEVINE:

So did you know anyone in Cleveland when you got there, besides your husband?

WOLLMAN:

I didn't know nobody, but my husband knew families that was coming from the places where he used to live. And they all was talking German, and we were good friends with them, and had a good time.

LEVINE:

Now how was it for you to learn English?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, it was not very hard. They were always talking German to me. But then just when I had children, they talked English to me, and I talked German to them. When the children, they all talked German 'til they started going to school. But as soon as they was going to school, no more German! All English. So I had to learn English. They talked English to me, and I talked German to them. That's the way I was learning English.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So did your children, in a way, teach you English?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, but they didn't want to talk English, I mean German, no more. They just want to talk English, and I had to learn English, too. That's the way I was learning English. I didn't go to school.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

WOLLMAN:

I could have went, in Germany, they had the girls' school there, just for girls. And they was learning English and French. But a doctor where we was close to the Russian border, and friends of us, pretty far away from us, in England, too. So a doctor never would have use for it; that's why I didn't go to that school. I could went there. But then I was learning it here. I didn't go to school here, either, just learned it from the children.

LEVINE:

What about when you went for your citizen papers? Did you have to go to classes?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I had to go to classes, and I had to have a test.

LEVINE:

Was that hard for you, or did you have enough English then?

WOLLMAN:

Oh, I had — well, everybody talked English, so I understood English very good. And [unclear] didn't talk no more German; we all talked English. So, I know English pretty good. And I had to go to the big city here to have a class there.

LEVINE:

Would you and your husband talk German or English after a while?

WOLLMAN:

Well, we always talked German in the beginning, and he told the children, too, to talk German to me. But then when they start going to school, they don't want to talk no more German. So that's the way I was learning English, when they talked English to me, and I talked German to them! [Laughs]

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Now, your husband's first name — what was his first name?

WOLLMAN:

Henry. Henry.

LEVINE:

Henry. And how many children did you have?

WOLLMAN:

Four; my son's the oldest, and then I got two more sisters. One lives in Merritt Island, and the other one lives in Daytona.

LEVINE:

So you had an oldest son, two daughters, and then you have another son?

WOLLMAN:

No, just the one that lives with me.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

WOLLMAN:

He had a home in California, he and his wife. And then when my husband died, they sold their van, their home, and was in with me. And then his wife died on cancer, and so we both live together.

LEVINE:

Well now, getting back to the early days in Cleveland, did you see a lot of changes in Cleveland, in the town, in the city, over the time that you lived there?

WOLLMAN:

Well, when I went back to Cleveland, I really didn't. My children, they was living close by, and I was living a long time in Cleveland, for thirty-six years. So I know that pretty good.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

WOLLMAN:

Well, it improves all over. Wherever you go, they build more buildings and everything gets improved.

LEVINE:

Now it was a German community, within Cleveland, that you were living in?

WOLLMAN:

Well, there was lots of people that talked German. They even had a church that had a German service.

LEVINE:

Oh.

WOLLMAN:

They had English and they had German service.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And what was — was there a name to that part of Cleveland where you were? What part of Cleveland was that?

WOLLMAN:

Well, it was Garfield Heights. It was the outskirts of Cleveland, little villages were around Cleveland, and they got different names. And this was Garfield Heights. It was just on the border from Cleveland.

LEVINE:

I'm sorry, are you saying Harvor Heights? What Heights? I couldn't catch the first word.

WOLLMAN:

Garfield Heights.

LEVINE:

Oh, Garfield Heights, uh-huh. Okay, yeah, I see. And were there other immigrant groups at that time besides Germans? Were there other people coming from other countries that were in Garfield Heights, too?

WOLLMAN:

Well, you know, where you live here, they come from all over. Wherever you go, you've got people from all different places. They come and settle wherever they feel like.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm, uh-hmm. What would you say has given you a lot of satisfaction in your life?

WOLLMAN:

Oh, I enjoyed it here, and I had a good life. And I enjoyed my friends.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

WOLLMAN:

And I could help my parents, too. They had very hard time there, while the money was worthless. They couldn't get much for their money. I could send them once in a while a gift package with food. And some clothes, too. And they had nothing, just what they was wearing. They had to leave their home. The Russians was coming in, and took everything that they had. They couldn't go back.

LEVINE:

This was during the Second World War? Is that--?

WOLLMAN:

No, that was the First. The Second, that was much later then. I don't know, I guess they was not even living there no more. No, the Second — let's see, the Second was, they still was living there. But my sister, did she have to move? From Ossbreissen to [pause] — what was that? [Unclear] and they was living there for a long time. In Newminster [PH]. Newminster.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. I'm sorry, go ahead.

WOLLMAN:

It was close to Hamburg, there.

LEVINE:

Well, do you think of yourself as German and American? How do you think about those two, two sides of yourself?

WOLLMAN:

Well, I like them both!

LEVINE:

[Laughs] That's good!

WOLLMAN:

[Laughs]

LEVINE:

Uh-huh! And let's see. Well, do you think coming here as a nineteen year old girl, do you think that made a difference, a big difference, to the kind of person you were?

WOLLMAN:

Well, we had lots of friends there that was coming from Russia to Florida. Well, not really Florida; we was staying in Cleveland for a long time. And over, I met, they all talked German, and we had a good life together. Even that grocery store on the corner, they talked German. But then later on when the children went to school, I learned English. They talked English to me, and I talked German to them.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. So how did you feel when you went back and saw Ellis Island the second time?

WOLLMAN:

It was nice to see it back again. It was not too much different. Only those pictures on the wall, they didn't have those before.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm, uh-hmm.

WOLLMAN:

It was nice to see it, and it was nice for my grandson to take us down there. It was not too far of a ride from where he was living.

LEVINE:

Now, did you keep up a lot of the German ways once you got to this country, like cooking the same kinds of foods, things like that?

WOLLMAN:

I cooked what I learned from my mother. I didn't cook different foods; I just cooked what I knew.

LEVINE:

What kinds of German dishes did you continue to make?

WOLLMAN:

Well, I liked [unclear], and pork chops. They got that in Germany, too. [Unclear], my father bought the pigs about sixty pounds or so, and killed it. And then we made sausage, and we smoked some. And we had some [unclear].

LEVINE:

Did you actually help in the making of the sausage?

WOLLMAN:

Do you know, my husband was very good in it; better than I.

LEVINE:

Oh, really? Could you describe it, how you did it?

WOLLMAN:

Well, you buy the casing, where you put the sausage in. And you've got machinery you put it on, the casing. The sausage go in there. You have to have the different tools. And then we was hanging it up over a [unclear], hang the sausage up to dry, and then later on we had to smoke, some of we smoked it. Well, we don't do that now no more. We don't buy a pig. When my husband still was alive we did.

LEVINE:

Oh, you did in Cleveland? You bought a pig?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

WOLLMAN:

A little pig, about sixty pounds, not the big. We had a man that know how to carve it, how to cut it in the right pieces. He was coming and cut it for us. So that was pretty good. Yeah, in Cleveland they had a really big building where you could buy all kinds of food. Usually that's where we went, and —

LEVINE:

A market.

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, it was like a market. But it was on the roof, and they had everything there that you want.

LEVINE:

So did you enjoy cooking? Did you like cooking?

WOLLMAN:

Well, I guess I had to! [Laughs]

LEVINE:

[Laughs] And how about sewing and making clothes? Is that something you continued doing?

WOLLMAN:

Well, I made a few. I made my daughter, my little children, a few clothes. I didn't do much sewing. I do, even now, I had a sewing class here. I go to the Low Vision Center here, in [Unclear]. Do you know where that is?

LEVINE:

Well, I know it's around here, but I'm not very familiar with this area.

WOLLMAN:

And they give you cooking lessons there, sewing, cooking.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. How do you like being here in Florida?

WOLLMAN:

Well, I think it's nice. I enjoy it here. [Pause] It was nice in Germany, too, that time before the war. It was very nice! People all were so friendly! For Christmas, the grocery store where bought our — the stores where we bought our food and things, for Christmas they was giving us a big box, and for every one was a package, a gift package, in the box. From the store!

LEVINE:

Like what would be the gift? What kinds of gifts would they give?

WOLLMAN:

Well, they were — I [unclear] what it was. Something to wear. But, it was very nice for them. Do you know that time we had Christmas trees, live Christmas trees, with real candles? And we clamped them on the tree, little candles.

LEVINE:

What was Christmas like? Did you have Christmas Eve., did you celebrate? How did you celebrate?

WOLLMAN:

Oh, just like here!

LEVINE:

Just like here, uh-huh.

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, but same. Christmas trees were, at that time we had live trees, and we bought those candles. Now, we don't do that no more. We have the electric. At that time they had little candles. You clamp them on the branches, and then you light them. But they had to be very careful that the tree doesn't go up in flames.

LEVINE:

Were you a religious family in Germany?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, I went to a religious school.

LEVINE:

Was it Catholic, Lutheran?

WOLLMAN:

Lutheran.

LEVINE:

Lutheran, uh-huh.

WOLLMAN:

But my children, they went here, too. [Pause] Well, the first year's eighth grade, then to the Lutheran School. They had a nice school there. The Lutherans built a nice school next to the church. And then they went there 'til the eighth grade, and then after that they went to the high school. [Pause] But you know, they learned German in school, but they forget it. They don't know much to talk German. I don't know, maybe they just don't want to talk. [Pause] They've got a German service in — in Highland here, in Grace Lutheran Church. They have English service, and they've got the German service.

LEVINE:

And so do you go to that, sometimes?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, they got it on the fourth Sunday of the month at three o'clock, the German service.

LEVINE:

Oh, uh-huh.

WOLLMAN:

The rest is all English.

LEVINE:

And are there other people there that when you go, that you--?

WOLLMAN:

There are quite some.

LEVINE:

--who came from Germany, and--? Uh-huh.

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, after that, we go in the furniture part, and then we get coffee and home-baked bakery. And then they talk about where they come, and —

LEVINE:

Oh, that's nice! That must be fun for you?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, it's fun for all of them that go there.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

WOLLMAN:

But that's only once a month that they got that, at three o'clock in the afternoon. It's only that once church I know. But there's on in Saint Petersburg, too. But this is the one on Highlands.

LEVINE:

So when you got your citizenship papers, were you feeling proud of yourself?

WOLLMAN:

Yeah, well I was glad that I got them then. It's not good to be in a place where you're not citizen. My husband, he had not a citizen paper, an American, or else I would be a citizen right with him. But then he went for his citizen paper, and I went, too.

LEVINE:

So when your husband came here, was he working in a shop? How did he conduct his--?

WOLLMAN:

There was a Right [PA] Musik here, Company, brass instrument company. That's where they make brass instruments. That's where he started. And I think that's where he was working all his life, later on there. Later on when he retired, people know he can repair instruments, you know. They brought him lots of instruments, and he was fixing them in the garage.

LEVINE:

Oh! In Cleveland?

WOLLMAN:

All brass instruments. And he had his tools to fix them. And then, when you work all your life, you cannot just sit and do nothing. So he was looking for a job, and they found out that he repaired music instruments, so he got all this [unclear].

LEVINE:

Did he play them as well?

WOLLMAN:

He can tune them, but he didn't play it. But he makes them that it's got the right tune. And he had a violin, but he couldn't play the violin much, either.

LEVINE:

Okay, is there anything else? We've been talking for an hour, now. Is there anything you can think of that maybe you'd like to say?

WOLLMAN:

I think we was talking about everything already! [Laughs]

LEVINE:

I think so, too, yeah! I want to thank you very much, and it's been a very interesting interview. I'm glad I got to meet you. And I want to say that I have been speaking with Hulda Wollmann, who came from Germany in 1922 when she was nineteen. And today — END OF INTERVIEW