LEVINE:

Today is March 7, the year 2000, and I'm here in Florida with Mr. Lanzo Harvey who came from Hungary in 1924 when he was just 4 years of age. At the time of this interview Mr. Harvey is 80 years old and Mr. Harvey's wife, Claire, is here with us too, today, and she'll be our speller.

HARVEY:

Right. We're married fifty years.

LEVINE:

Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh, that's beautiful. Picture. Wonderful. Okay. So if we could start at the beginning. If you'd say for the tape your birthdate and where in Hungary you were born.

HARVEY:

Ah, my birthdate, according to my birth certificate is February the 24 th , 1920. I was born in a small village, and I'm sure, the story I've heard, I was born in my grandmother's house, as all the rest of my cousins were. It was a tiny village, I mean small.

LEVINE:

Do you know its name?

HARVEY:

Yes. It's called Balaton Magyarod, B-A-L-A-T-O-N M-A-G-Y-A-R-O-D, Balaton Magyarod.

LEVINE:

It's one word?

HARVEY:

No. Two words. Two words, and it is just south of Lake Balaton, about twenty some miles, and close to the Yugoslav border on the other side.

LEVINE:

Now, were your grandparents from that same region?

HARVEY:

I would assume so, but I don't know.

LEVINE:

One either side or both sides?

HARVEY:

Probably both sides, yes.

LEVINE:

Okay.

HARVEY:

Because they tended not, to stay with the land and it was a small farming community. And I guess I was a peasant boy.

LEVINE:

So you never knew your grandparents?

HARVEY:

I didn't know my grandparents, no. Or if I did, I have forgotten them.

LEVINE:

Okay. Do you remember anything about that very small village? Do you have any visual memories?

HARVEY:

Yes. Yes, I do. I remember back to the time when I was two and a half years old when an older cousin and I were in the barn, and he was climbing a ladder, and fell and broke his neck and died. I remember being kicked by a calf, about that same age. Knocked me all the way across the barn. So that was a funny incident.

LEVINE:

What were people growing there? What were the crops?

HARVEY:

I would say, just from having returned, they have corn, they have cabbage. Many red peppers. Tomatoes. Carrots. And ah, they kept livestock. I also remember being barefoot and the mud squishing between my toes. Cause I think I didn't have shoes in those days. In fact, this picture here, I think that was my first pair of shoes.

LEVINE:

I just want to say there's a beautiful picture that will be in Mr. Harvey's folder, of him at four years of age when he came through Ellis Island.

HARVEY:

Mm, hm.

LEVINE:

Do you remember the house that you lived in?

HARVEY:

I do remember the house, yes. In fact, I have seen it since there, because I had, after having come to this country, I never saw my mother again 'til I was thirty-eight years old. And ah, I remember the house. It had thick walls. Three foot wide, thick walls. It was packed with dirt and straw and these were so-called packed mud houses with thatched roofs. And ah, of course, no electric.

LEVINE:

No electric. Probably no bath and no running water.

HARVEY:

No. Of course not. No running water. Outhouses only. And ah, the way I got to this, to America...

LEVINE:

Just before we leave Hungary, now, was your mother with you?

HARVEY:

My mother was with me. But my parents had divorced because my father came from Budapest, a big city, and he could not -- he was not a farm person and could not make a living there. And my mother would not leave the family and go with him to the city. For they were simple people. They told her he'd wind up killing her, (he laughs) if she left her parents. And therefore, they divorced so I was with a single mother at the time.

LEVINE:

Okay. And your mother's name?

HARVEY:

Rosa. Rosa Pap. And the family name had been Horvat. So I don't, I don't remember whether she went by that or Pap.

LEVINE:

I see. Was Pap your father's name?

HARVEY:

That was my father's name, yes.

LEVINE:

And what was his first name?

HARVEY:

Ah, it would be ah, let's see. Istvan. Yes. I-S-T-V-A-I-N, I believe.

CLAIRE:

V-A-N.

HARVEY:

V-A-N. That was my father's name. Pap, Istvan. Istvan is Steve in English. In Hungarian. Hungarian to English translation.

LEVINE:

I see. Okay...

HARVEY:

He was a locksmith and could not make a living in the village so he left. They divorced.

LEVINE:

Uh, huh. And then what did your, ah, when he left, how old were you?

HARVEY:

From what I hear, less than a year old.

LEVINE:

Then what did your mother do in order to make ends meet? Were you the only child?

HARVEY:

I was an only child. But her whole family, all of her sisters, mother and father were there, and I guess they all looked out for each other.

LEVINE:

Mm. Did you mother like work in the fields or anything like that?

HARVEY:

I don't know. I would assume so. I would assume so.

LEVINE:

So, now, how was it that you came to America?

HARVEY:

Ah, my brother, or my mother had a brother in America, in Cleveland, Ohio. Who also had immigrated when he was eighteen years old from Hungary, and had established himself. And he and his wife, who would be my aunt, could have no children. I don't know, for whatever reason. And they wrote to my mother if they would, if she would like to have me brought to America along with her [his aunt]. And she volunteered, yes. And so, my uncle's wife came to Hungary to see me, meet me and ah, the story goes that she asked me if I wanted to go to America (he starts crying). And I said yes, (pause, he's crying) so I left my mother. She cried, and I said don't worry, you'll come out too. But I was very willing to go.

LEVINE:

Do you have any idea how you were thinking? I guess at four years old...

HARVEY:

Well, all I know is that I was always a kid that didn't get out in the fields with the others. I used to like to sleep late in the morning. They were up by four in the morning. (laughing and crying) And I said, this life is not for me.

LEVINE:

You had in mind that you were going to bring your mother.

HARVEY:

Yes. Yes. She was supposed to come. But, the Depression came, the war came, and so on and so forth. She never got here and I did.

LEVINE:

Do you remember leaving?

HARVEY:

Not really. The only thing I do recall, the first, this aunt took me to Budapest first and I saw electric lights for the first time (he cries). That impressed me so much and I remember saying, or she said to me, that I said that it must be hard to steal here because of all the lights. (he laughs)

LEVINE:

Now, it was just you and your aunt traveling together?

HARVEY:

Just me and my aunt, yes. Yes. Mm, hm.

LEVINE:

And what was her name?

HARVEY:

Her name was Irma. Irma Hirsch. So I've gone through a number of name changes. But she was a very kind woman and ah, but like I say, except, related only by marriage at the time. So she accompanied me, yes. And when we got to, I remember on the ship, I remember being seasick several times and when we got into New York they would not let her stay on Ellis Island because she was not my mother, and they would not let me off because I had no parents there. So until the legal work was finished, I was in Ellis Island for three weeks alone. I'm sure she came to visit me. And I'm sure that she, certain that she must have engaged some person to look somewhat after me, but I think I was on Ellis Island with a tag around my neck for three weeks.

LEVINE:

Wow. Now, let's just mention, you came on the Acquitania. Do you have any recollection of the ship?

HARVEY:

Yes, I do. Only that being sick, and I didn't like the food. I remember I didn't like the food because my adopted mother used to say to me if she hadn't brought some what we called [solona,] that I would have starved to death on the ship cause I wouldn't eat anything on the ship but a piece of bread and a piece of [solona] which is nothing more than pork fat smoked with some meat in it. Lot of paprika on it.

LEVINE:

Uh, huh. Now, do you remember you accommodations? Were you in a cabin with your aunt? Or were you in a dormitory kind of place?

HARVEY:

I would say we were in a cabin because they were fairly well off at this time. They had made a life for themselves in Hungary, or in America, and I'd say we were in a cabin, yes. We were not in a dormitory style thing.

LEVINE:

What was your uncle doing for work in Cleveland?

HARVEY:

He was in real estate at the time and a man with very little education but a lot of street smarts. And he again, decided the village life was not for him. He had taken the same path that I did, really. And ah, he came when he was eighteen years old from Hungary and ah, he, the stories he used to tell me that you had to have ten dollars in order to get into America. So he said in the whole group, there was one ten dollar bill that they passed from one to the other. And the first thing when he got ashore, he was recruited to mine coal in Pennsylvania. Well, he did that for a very short while and he says I've got to do better than this. And he said I'll never go underground again. Which he didn't. He saved enough to branch out from there.

LEVINE:

What was his name?

HARVEY:

His name was Julius Horvath.

LEVINE:

H-O-R-V-A-T-H

HARVEY:

V-A-T-H. Yes. And somewhere along the line, he changed it to Hirsch. I don't know why. And ah, his wife, sounds as if she had education because she spoke several languages and was an interpreter for the immigrants in Buffalo, New York. So ah, that's where they had met. And then when they married they moved to Cleveland for whatever reason I don't know. And ah, first my adopted father became a barber. He went to barber school and learned barbering....

LEVINE:

This is he left the coal mine.

HARVEY:

He left the coal mine.

LEVINE:

He went to barber school. In Buffalo?

HARVEY:

In Cleveland. In Cleveland. In Cleveland. And barbered for probably five to seven years. And he said until he saved up a thousand dollars. Then he bought a Model T Ford and said, I'm going to go into the real estate business. And that's what he was in the rest of his life.

LEVINE:

So do you remember when the Acquitania came into the New York Harbor?

HARVEY:

(sighs) I don't think so. I don't think so. What I really remember of the New York Harbor was the day that they picked me up in Ellis Island and took me to New York. We went past the, saw the skyline. In fact they held me up to look at, cause people were along the rail there, to look at New York. And I remember that trip from Ellis Island to New York, but not from, not when we first came in. Might have been at night, I don't know.

LEVINE:

Would you say everything you can remember about your three weeks at Ellis Island? Maybe first just say anything about the legal situation that needed to get ironed out before you could leave.

HARVEY:

Well, this is all hearsay because of course not knowing anything, but evidently I was self sufficient enough to be felt that they could leave me on my own. I don't know how. I'd hate to see a four year old child thrown to that situation, but evidently I survived and thrived. And ah,

LEVINE:

You were so cute. Probably everybody took care of you. (They laugh.)

HARVEY:

I don't know. But I remember, we were fed. I don't know how good it was or how bad it was. And we did sleep in a dormitory style facility. And except for just walking around and that's about it.

LEVINE:

Did you play? Do you remember? Like were there other children?

HARVEY:

I don't know, but probably, probably. I just don't know. But all I know, I was the only one without parents there. So, somebody had to do some good for me. Some of the strangers had to be kind to me.

LEVINE:

So then it was your aunt who was in New York trying to....

HARVEY:

Yes. She spent almost the whole time there going through the court system and the immigration system. And in fact she hired some lawyer to do whatever it was that he did and ah, in three weeks she said well, now we're going home to Cleveland. That was it.

LEVINE:

So then did she come back out to Ellis Island?

HARVEY:

Yes. She used to visit me. She visited me. I don't know how frequently. But she came out to claim me. In fact, my adopted father also, Julius, he also came to town. The three of us went together into New York City. Then from there on to Cleveland.

LEVINE:

So you then took a train, is that how you went? Do you remember that part?

HARVEY:

I don't remember that part. But more than likely.

LEVINE:

Do you remember any things either in New York or in Cleveland that struck you as new and different those first few days, weeks...

HARVEY:

Just the size of the city. I was awed by the size of the city and how much I saw having come from a small village like I did. I was totally blown away by the size of everything. The abundance of everything.

LEVINE:

Do you remember when you arrived in Cleveland? What happened the first day, night?

HARVEY:

Well, I was introduced to their friends, who were mainly Hungarians also.

LEVINE:

There was a Hungarian community in Cleveland?

HARVEY:

Yes, there was but they did not live in the Hungarian section. But nevertheless, they had, had a group of friends that, well, as I recall, every one of them spoke Hungarian and it was a good thing cause I spoke no English, of course. In fact, they even had some woman there who seemed to be ah, a housekeeper for them, or some such thing as that, and ah, she took care of me because they were, they were business people. They ah, were entrepreneurs. And I remember that I saw a balloon, rubber balloons for the first time. I had never seen balloons. They blew up the balloons for me and ah, I remember I used to go to this lady and ah, [Nene] is aunt in Hungarian. So I would say to her, ["Nene fui"], blow up the balloons. Which she would do for me. But like I say, she spoke Hungarian and she took care of me for the interim there.

LEVINE:

Now, were there any social, either clubs or maybe church that the Hungarian people ah, kind of revolved around in Cleveland?

HARVEY:

There was, but my folks were not involved in that. They just had their own circle of friends. They had a lot of friends and they seemed to have frequent parties with Hungarian food and the wine and the dancing, the Gypsy music and that sort of thing. But they seemed to organize these things for themselves. So it was not an organized club, they just got together and had picnics and, because we lived on the West side of Cleveland, and the Hungarian community was on the East side. I mean, a whole enclave of them. But we lived on the other side of town and they had their own, their own friends. Like I say, almost all of them Hungarians.

LEVINE:

So the different ethnic groups that were in Cleveland at that time, they didn't mix that much with the other people who had immigrated.

HARVEY:

No. No. Not in our case there.

LEVINE:

And were they religious? Or was your mother religious, and were your aunt and uncle religious?

HARVEY:

Ah, not really just to the point of religious. But my aunt was Jewish and my father, adopted father was Catholic. But he leaned toward the Jewish faith because he liked the thoughts and the practices of what little he saw. But never, never that they were any really ah, religious whatsoever. I remember having gone to a temple several times. They even attempted to bar mitzvah me but it didn't work out (he laughs). And although I was circumcised when I was five years old. Talk about a hurt! Oh, god. (He's laughing.) That is unreal.

LEVINE:

Why did they do that? Just because they wanted...

HARVEY:

Well, because they wanted, see I guess it was the Jewish tradition and she ran somewhat of a Jewish tradition home. And ah, it was becoming accepted practice at that time even for non-Jews as I understand. But like I say I was four years old and I remember it. Four or five years old probably. Cause I arrived in June of 1924 into Cleveland and it was shortly afterwards.

LEVINE:

And then did you start school in September?

HARVEY:

(intake of breath) Ah, I started when I was five, the following, yes. Not of that year because I no English at all. I spoke nothing but Hungarian. But the following year I'm sure I started in to school. (break in tape)

LEVINE:

Okay, we're resuming here after a break, and we were talking about your going to school. You didn't go that, you came in June of 1924 and went to school September of 1925.

HARVEY:

That's correct. That's correct.

LEVINE:

Now, in that interim of a year and some months, you were learning English? How was that for you? Learning English?

HARVEY:

It seemed to me as if I picked it up immediately. Because there were other children around, course they spoke nothing but English and ah, I just don't recall any problem whatsoever communicating with them. So I think I picked it up rather rapidly and started school in the next year.

LEVINE:

So when you started school you could understand...

HARVEY:

Oh, yes. Absolutely. I was bi-lingual.

LEVINE:

And when you were in school were there immigrant children in your school? In your class that were learning English?

HARVEY:

I... No. No. We spoke strictly English. I think I was the only immigrant child there in the school.

LEVINE:

Wow.

HARVEY:

It was a working class neighborhood and ah, in fact it was in Cleveland on Franklin Avenue in the, let's see, I think I remember the name of the school which was Franklin School. Franklin Grade School. And ah..

LEVINE:

Anything about school that you think of when you think back to grade school?

HARVEY:

Well, I didn't much like school, but I did adequately. Went to school in Cleveland. Went through grade school, junior high, high school. And ah, graduated in 1938 from West Tech High School in Cleveland, Ohio.

LEVINE:

And when you graduated did you get a job?

HARVEY:

I got a job but that was at the tail end of the Depression. I finally got a job at a soda fountain for 25 cents an hour. Twelve dollars a week for six days a week. Twelve dollars a week. Ah, that lasted probably eight or nine months. The only good thing about the job was that it was a girls school right upstairs and I got all kinds of dates. (He laughs.) And I liked the girls. But finally after, but like I say that was the end, the tail end of the Depression, and ah, of course I remember the whole Depression.

LEVINE:

What do you remember about it?

HARVEY:

My parents went completely broke. They had owned rooming houses and small apartments and things like that. And not only that but they got a divorce in 1932, so that, on top of going broke, left us with absolutely nothing. And being my father's close relative, I went with him. And he managed to rent a house for five dollars a month. And ah, I took on the job of cooking and cleaning and washing our clothes and things like that. He and I "bached" it for about two years.

LEVINE:

Now how old were you roughly when...?

HARVEY:

Twelve years old. So...

LEVINE:

Let's go back. Now your mother then, never came over as you had expected.

HARVEY:

No. No. As I expected or as she had expected. To tell you the truth, I had forgotten about my mother. And when my adopted parents divorced, they told me that I was adopted by them. It was a complete shock. I was twelve years old at the time. Because I had forgotten about my mother. Because I had another family and they were very good to me. And the early mid-twenties we were quite well off. We were upper middle class if anything. New car. Big home. In fact, every time I go back to Cleveland I go back to that home we lived in just to look at it and it's still there. Over seventy years ago.

LEVINE:

Now, did you then take on another name?

HARVEY:

What had happened is I took on the name of Hirsch, cause, and it was legally adopted in June of 1924. I have adoption papers here.

LEVINE:

Were you called Lanzo then or Lazlo?

HARVEY:

Yes. No. My adopted mother liked the name Lanzo. I don't know why or where she got it from but she said it sounded, Lazlo was not good enough for her, so I went to Lanzo and went to Lanzo Hirsch at the time. And ah, went all through school with that name. And then, in fact went through the war with that name. It was only after I married Claire here, that my mother in law said you don't look like a Hirsch, you look like a Harvey. Of course, I was much easier in those days and a pushover. Today, they couldn't do that to me. But in those days I said, ah, what's the difference. I've gone through three other names anyways so... I legally changed it to Harvey, which I do not regret but I would not have done it again.

LEVINE:

Was Harvey just a .... Out of the blue?

HARVEY:

Out of the blue. Just picked it out of the blue, and I don't know why.

LEVINE:

Okay, so you didn't then communicate with your mother when you were growing up here?

HARVEY:

No. No. I did not. I'm sure she heard of me through my uncle who wrote back and forth to the family, but I personally did not communicate. I spoke Hungarian but I could not read or write it, so anything we got from her from that time was written, was translated by my adopted father, my uncle.

LEVINE:

What do you remember about Cleveland in your growing up years? Can you say anything about the city itself? Maybe ways that it's changed since you have gone back, neighborhoods?

HARVEY:

The neighborhoods definitely have changed. At that time it was a, it was a working man's city, no doubt about it. And we lived in some very nice neighborhood until after 1930. Because then we had to step down as well. But I had a pretty fair life, I would say. There was always enough to eat, there wasn't enough of money or anything like that. Although I remember a new automobile in 1936. Somehow or other. But my adopted mo-, oh, I moved back with my adopted mother because it, it was easier (he laughs) than to live with...

LEVINE:

She did the washing!

HARVEY:

She did the washing (laughing) and the cooking and things like that. And ah, she was also, had a talent for making money one way or another. She spent it all, but she did make it. And I remember quite a nice life with her. It was not an excess of money, but like I say there was even a new car in 1936, a '36 Pontiac. END SIDE A BEGIN SIDE B

HARVEY:

So having gone to school in Cleveland, I had friends there, I did a variety of nothing jobs. Managed to eek out a living. Helped my mother cause she needed money. And then, of course in 1941, the war broke out. Pearl Harbor. And I decided I was going to join the Air Corp. I went down to join up and here I find out I'm not a citizen, which I was not even aware of because naturally no one ever asked me if I was a citizen. I never had to give proof until that time. So they did not accept me. So at that time I decided well, I had to do something, wanted to do something. I joined the Merchant Marine and went through Merchant Marine school, but again, I couldn't get a passport cause I was not a citizen so I couldn't ship out. So I worked the Lakes, Great Lakes, for one year. And ah, in the meantime I had applied for citizenship papers, which I finally got in December of '43. And two months later I joined the Air Corp and came to Miami Beach for basic training. Then all through Texas. I became an aviation cadet, we passed all the tests. I wanted to become a pilot. I wanted to fly for a living. So ah, fortunately, there weren't enough killed and there were a surplus of pilots so I went to B-29 Flight Engineer School, still as an aviation cadet. And no sooner had I gone through and completed the training, the war ended. And they said, well, if you want to fly, you got to sign up for three more years. And I says, I'm going home. I was already then twenty five years old. I wanted to get on with my life. So I did come home. And ah,

LEVINE:

When you say came home, you came home to Cleveland.

HARVEY:

Cleveland, yes, came home to Cleveland. But I liked Florida so well, that I immediately upon saving up a small amount of money, and my father lived down here in Miami so I had a place to go with him. So I came down in 1947 to Miami and have stayed here ever since. So I first came down in 1944 during the winter there, and ah, loved it so much that I came on back to Florida.

LEVINE:

And when did you meet your wife?

HARVEY:

I met my wife in ah, 1949 through a friend of ours who knew me from the first day I came to America. She had lived in Cleveland, also a Hungarian lady, and ah, I used to visit her from time to time, during the war, because she was down, living on Miami Beach and I was stationed in the Clevelander Hotel in Miami Beach there, and ah, we did get to see each other and I stopped by to see her but I, it was not 'til after the war that I came back when I saw her and she said to me, have I got to "goil" for you! And I says, okay, so she introduced Claire and I through her mother and father who were also Hungarian. So we kept all Hungarian all the way through. And then we got married in 1950. August 31 st of 1950.

LEVINE:

Your wife says '49.

HARVEY:

Oh, I'm sorry. It is '49. (they laugh) Well, that's what happens when your eighty years old, it slips.

LEVINE:

Okay.

HARVEY:

We knew each other four and a half months. And I didn't have a job (he laughs). So, and that day before we were married, her father said to her, you know, it's not too late to back out. So ah, she said, no, we're going to go on through with it. And like I say, I didn't have a job and through some insurance, she got a dowry of a thousand dollars so we went on a five week honeymoon and blew it all. (they laugh) Real smart.

LEVINE:

Why don't you say your wife's name and maiden name.

HARVEY:

My wife's maiden name was Claire Brown. B-R-O-W-N. And evidently when they came to this country it had been B-R-A-U-N, but immigration somehow changed it. But anyway, she became a Brown, Claire Brown. Then when she married me she became a Hirsch. Then I changed my name legally (he laughs) and she wound up not changing her name so I don't know whether she's a Hirsch or a Harvey to this day. But she goes by the name of Harvey.

LEVINE:

Okay. Can you say anything about the build up for World War II here in Miami, during those years when you were stationed here?

HARVEY:

Well, I didn't know too much about it. I was here about four months at that time. So we, really I never even got into the City of Miami at all. It was strictly on the beach that we were. We had excellent accommodations. I lived at the Clevelander Hotel, the Victor Hotel on Miami Beach. And ah, another one or two and we ate at the cafeterias. So we really had a great life. And ah, we did all our training here and we ah, went swimming in the ocean and also we swam at the Blackstone Hotel in Miami Beach and we all had to strip off and go swimming. And all the girls would stand around and look, watch us. I don't know why, but they did. And ah, it was a rather good life at the time. And ah, I had nothing but pleasant war memories. Fortunately I never got into action. I was, went to school the whole time. I wound up a flight engineer, had even gone to Texas A&M for short while. So I owe this country and the army a great deal because they taught me a good trade. I became an aircraft mechanic as well, plus a flight engineer. But when I was discharged there were no flying jobs. So I finally got a job with Pan Am as a mechanic, whom I worked with for twenty five years. Got to go all around the world. Had wonderful benefits. It was a good, one of the best jobs in Miami at the time and ah, I'm one of the people that well, saved his money. In fact, the day I started with Pan Am I tell my grandchildren, that's the day I looked in the mirror and I said to myself, I'll never be broke again. (very choked up) (softly) Because we had gone through some awful hard times. And ah, I started, always had a sideline. I bought property. Had a little business going. Saved my money. I did fifty years ago what they're telling young people to do now as far as saving and investing and providing for themselves. To sum it all up, I think tells what kind of person I am, I never had a car payment in my whole life. If I couldn't afford it, I wouldn't buy it. And so we did prosper, we did get to do everything we wanted to do. And ah, it was after I got with Pan Am in 1958, was the first time I went back to Hungary and saw my mother. Was 38 years old at the time.

LEVINE:

What was that like?

HARVEY:

That was some reunion. But ah, it was a very, very joyous reunion. And that time we had gone to Brussels World's Fair in 1958. And that time it was still Communist dominated in Hungary and we couldn't even get a visa to get in. Our government told us not to go in. But there was some special deal going on at the 1958 World's Fair in Brussels that allowed us to get a visa to get into Budapest. We couldn't, could not leave the city limits. But we could get into Budapest. And my mother and a couple of my other relatives came into Budapest and I met them for the first time there. In those days, the Russian soldiers still used to ride the streetcar holding Tommy guns in their laps there. And you really had to watch what you did and where you went and what you said. But ah, after that it got a lot easier. And like I say, they tried to recruit me, being an aircraft mechanic and I told 'em that I would not, under any circumstances, want to come back to Hungary. That if they made me king of Hungary I would not return. Of course that aggravated everybody, but (he laughs) I always said it like it was.

LEVINE:

So did you then see your mother after that?

HARVEY:

Yes. Having worked for Pan Am, I got free trips and we went to Hungary every year after that. And ah, the fact of the matter is, we used to go usually for a month after I had enough seniority that I got four weeks vacation, and ah, I always had antique automobiles. Bought cars, had cars, rented cars, so we used to drive through Europe and wind up in Hungary every year. And on particular year, I had gone to England and followed up an advertisement and I bought an older Rolls Royce. And we shipped it, while we took the ferry over to France and drove it all through Europe for a month into Hungary. You know, local boy makes good and that sort of thing. And of course there's one main street in my little village where everyone used to sit out in the evening. And when we got there, my mother asked Claire, my wife, to get out of the car, she sat in the back seat, arms folded and she said, drive slow. (laughs) And we went down the street and she thought she was the Queen of England with that way there. Drive slow, she said. Seemed every kid in the village know what a Rolls Royce was though, and it's really, it's a fun thing, you know.

LEVINE:

Do you think having come here as a, as a little boy and starting over again, do you think that had an impact or what kind of an effect do you think it had on you, on your character, on your personality?

HARVEY:

Well, I think the biggest impact was the Depression on me. Because we were scarred by the Depression, no doubt about it. Before then, having been, just being a youngster between five, ten years old, like I say, they were quite well off at the time. We had new cars, we had a big house, we had everything. And really, I took everything for granted. But when the Depression hit us, that's when it really, really came to, to bearing on me. And ah, like I told you, that when I said I made money, but not enough to do anything with. That's why I told you that when I got with Pan Am I said to myself, I'll never be broke again. I never was in debt, but I, you had to wait for payday for that, for that twenty dollars or twenty-two dollars that you were making, something like that.

LEVINE:

What would you say are your greatest satisfactions when you look back over your lifetime?

HARVEY:

Well, I think my greatest satisfaction is having made it. I really feel that, I used to call myself a survivor. But now I call myself a winner. Because I have really had things that were, the average person doesn't have thrown at them. And I have survived it all. My health is good. I've got a good wife of fifty years. We can travel, we can come, we can go. I can do anything I want within reason. I can't have it all, but I can have almost anything I want right today. I'm already retired twenty-four years from Pan Am. In fact, a friend of mine said, at twenty-four years retired, how come you're not broke? I says, because I have provided for myself and I still will not spend the last dollar. I have more this month than I had a month ago. And ah, to me, the greatest impact on me was the opportunity that I've had in America. Because this is truly a land, if, if, and I've, if you're willing to work, I have never been on welfare, I've never been on public assistance, I never spent an hour in jail. And never had any type of problems whatsoever. If you follow the rules, and are willing to work, you can have anything in the world you want here.

LEVINE:

I think that's a beautiful place to end. I want to thank you for a lovely interview.

HARVEY:

Thank you.

LEVINE:

I've been speaking with Lanzo Harvey, who came on the Acquitania in 1924 at the age of four years old. And was on Ellis Island for three weeks before being legally cleared to go with his aunt and uncle. And this is Janet Levine for the National Parks Service on March 7, 19, no, 2000.

HARVEY:

2000, right.

LEVINE:

And I'm signing off.