LEVINE:

Okay. Today is September the 19th the year 2004. I'm here in Manhattan ah on Central Park South with Lorain Allison Ro -- Romanchuck.

ROMANCHUCK:

Romanchuck.

LEVINE:

Romanchuck Romanchuck. Who came through Ellis Island with her mother -- who as pregnant at the time. Ah sh -- Lorain was at that time one and a half years of age and she and her mother left England in 1947 from the port of Liverpool

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Ah and ah -- and arrived ah at Ellis Island then. Okay this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service. Okay if we could just start at the beginning if you would say please your ah -- why don't we start with your mother and your father's names. ROMANCHUCK Alright. My father's name was Fr --ah Francis Steven O'Neil Batiste and my mother's name was Henrietta Frith. She didn't have a second name.

LEVINE:

And the ah it -- how do you spell her last name?

ROMANCHUCK:

F-R-I-T-H.

LEVINE:

Okay and ah -- now where were each of them from?

ROMANCHUCK:

They were both born in Glasgow -- ah Scotland. Um my mother's parents and her family were all Scottish descent that we know about. My cousin actually ah on a my mom's side her -- she became a Mormon and they're very very good at um --lin --

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Genealogy.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes. And so she's researched all of her family and my Nana. So when I go home I'll be really talking to her a lot more about all of that. On my dad's side -- his father was born in Glasgow but his grandfather was born in Naples, Italy.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. And how about his mother?

ROMANCHUCK:

She she was Irish descent and she must have -- I'm not sure if she was born -- I would say she was probably born in Scotland but her her grandpar -- her parents

LEVINE:

Her mother.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah. Her mother and father were probably Irish,

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

Cause their last name was O'Neill.

LEVINE:

O'Neil. Okay.

ROMANCHUCK:

And that's why my dad has O'Neil in his name.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. Okay. And um (clears throat) how about the war years as far as your mother and father's experience?

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh my mom told me that ah they'd come home from work and there'd be a a building on their street would be bombed -- it'd be gone - - where they lived.

LEVINE:

They were living then in London?

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes.

LEVINE:

At at that point. Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

They were married and were living there. She was at her job in the factory and I don't know exactly where he worked but he would have his job to go to as well. And she talked about the blackouts -- and the sirens -- and the coupons and lining up for food.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

So I think they a very simple life then it wasn't a lot of ah -- they'd go down -- they loved going do to -- they called it the pali but the palace. And it was a ballroom. I think that was the only thing that um -- cause there was no TV -- they had a radio but there -- that was their form of info -- entertainment and their social life was going down to the dancing.

LEVINE:

So they were they were married you said ah before the war started?

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes. I think -- well I think it was 1940 --1939 or 40. I'll have to look at that -- again.

LEVINE:

I see. And you said then that your mother was working in a factory even though before that she had worked in a shop.

ROMANCHUCK:

Shop. I think she worked in a shop in in Argyle Street in --

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- in ah Edinburgh when she was just out of school.

LEVINE:

I see.

ROMANCHUCK:

And then um my nana and my aunt and my mom moved to London. So their their formative years were in Glasgow. And then after my grandfather died on my mums side, I think that's when she --when my nana decided to moved to London. Because my mother met my dad at the dancing cause I said, where did you meet him? And she said at a dance.

LEVINE:

In London.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes. They were wonderful ballroom dancers. They really did dace well together (laughs).

LEVINE:

Awh.

ROMANCHUCK:

So I think that was their whole life -- was just going to the dancing. That's all they did.

LEVINE:

Wow. So do do you know an anymore specifically why your grandmother and your mother and your aunt moved from --

ROMANCHUCK:

[superimposed] To London.

LEVINE:

from Scotland to London?

ROMANCHUCK:

I think economics -- was just to have a better life.

LEVINE:

Ah ha ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

I think they all had stars in their eyes because that was the movie star era. I mean their whole lives were influenced by what was on the big screen in those days. And the Americans were very prevalent um - - to show a very -- proser ah prosperous and fun loving sort of live --

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- on the screen. And so of course they all thought oh this would be wonderful to be like that. And they wee both -- both my mother and especially my aunt they were very attractive women. And -- you sort of get fooled probably by life thinking oh maybe you know if you're standing in line someone will discover you. Or whatever. You know.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

And they came from nothing so they -- you know anything was better than what they had. So I think that was why my -- my nana made hats. That's what she did.

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

She was a Milner. So she probably got a job somewhere doing that and and the girls just had to go and get a um -- work in the shops is what they did.

LEVINE:

Wa wa do you think they were thinking of coming to --

ROMANCHUCK:

No, I don't think so.

LEVINE:

No.

ROMANCHUCK:

No.

LEVINE:

They were just getting to a a bigger --

ROMANCHUCK:

To a better life.

LEVINE:

-- more prosperous place.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

And then my my co my aunt -- her name was Carol -- Agnes Gow was her name (laughs) and they called her Carol for some reason. I don't -- how ye --how --I don't know how you shorten Agnes Gow to Carol but --

LEVINE:

G-O-W?

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Agnes Gow, she was named after an aunt or a sister of my nana's. Anyway she married (car horn) a fellow call Jack who was in the Navy and when the war broke out he went to sea and died. Never came back and um and then a relative of Jack's -- his nam --his name was Vic Dovi [ph]-- came to pay his respects as part of the Dovi [ph] family. And the -- he ended up marrying Aunty Carol. So by this time ja ah Aunty Carol was pregnant with Jack's baby.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

The one who died at sea.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And so Uncle Vic just assumed the responsibility of being Jackie (this is my cousin Jaclyn) her --

LEVINE:

Father.

ROMANCHUCK:

Her father. His -- her father. And they had another daughter Averill, [ph] which was Uncle Vic's um daughter. So there's two two -- I have two cousins.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Averill and Jackie.

LEVINE:

I see.

ROMANCHUCK:

Then ah my uncle was in the um -- the Navy and got posted to a [not understood] in Victoria, B.C. and then he sent for his wife to come to live with him. (car horn) That was Aunty Carol so she went over with my cousin Jackie and um so they started their new life in Canada. And then my nana went over to be with her daughter Aunty Ca -- my Aunt Carol. So there were all --three of them were -- or the two of -- well my aunt, my nana, and my uncle, (car horn) and my cousin were all living in Victoria. And then they sent back word to my dad that there'd be a job with the CPR -- cause he was a tool grinder, a machinist -- that he could get work there. So my dad decided to immigrant (car horn) to Canada. And then my mom was there by herself with just my dad's father - - or mother. So she decided to come over and by that time I was a year and a half and she was pregnant with my sister Vicky.

LEVINE:

Um hum. Um kay. Do you remember -- or ha -- do you remember being told anything about those -- that first year and a half before --

ROMANCHUCK:

Um.

LEVINE:

-- you came here. Anything about you or anything about --the family?

ROMANCHUCK:

I remember my mom saying that she -- of course in those days you all lived together. Either was um -- no one had houses you lived in row housing and it was usually stairs (laughs) that you had to walk up to the second or third floor. So my mom lived with my dad's mother.

LEVINE:

Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

Just shortly before she came to Canada. And that was when the rationing was on. And everything -- all the food was locked in cupboards and you had to line up for food and it it just wasn't the opulence that you see today.

LEVINE:

Um.

ROMANCHUCK:

For sure.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And ah they wanted -- my grandmother wanted me to become Roman Catholic and I was christened in the Roman Catholic Church. And my -- that must have been a huge event for my mother cause she did -- I could feel from her she didn't really like that but she went along with it justv to keep the peace.

LEVINE:

Now was she religious in any way?

ROMANCHUCK:

No no. And I think a lot of it was -- her dad died when she was quite young and they didn't really have um -- for some reason my nana didn't have a big support group either. She was away from her family so I think they just moved to Glasgow -- or she just moved to Glasgow, lived there with her husband and there didn't seem to be a lot of family around her. So I think there religion was themselves -- keep that's --

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

They kept the fa -- faith with themselves I guess is a good way of putting it.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

But I don't think church was a big part of their lives at any point --Their lives.

LEVINE:

And your father was it --

ROMANCHUCK:

No.

LEVINE:

-- a big part of --

ROMANCHUCK:

He -- I mean when leave school when you're in grade eight you don't even have a personality, you're just --

LEVINE:

(laughs) Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

You're so young --

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- that you don't know um anything other then getting. You know if you have a job you get up and go to work -- some home again. That was sort of it. And they moved around so much um -- or he did when he was younger that -- he went to sea and he was away for a couple years. And and so his family would be the ship crew.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

That's what he did from when he was young.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. ] ROMANCHUCK: And then he would home and of course all that was home -- at home was his sister. And she married a fellow in the Navy.

LEVINE:

Why don't you say for the tape um -- you were saying earlier about he merchant marine how --

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes.

LEVINE:

-- How it had come down I the family of your father.

ROMANCHUCK:

Um my great grandfather was part of a family of of four or five brothers and sisters and they all were born in Naples. And my dad said in those days (car horn) ah the oldest son would inher -- inherited the winery and the rest didn't. So they looked elsewhere to to make their fortunes and I guess immigrating (car horn) to Great Britain was in vogue. Or ah there must have been some opportunities to go there. Maybe they gave them free passage -- who knows why hey went there. For so reason they all went there. And um so my grandfather -- I'm sorry my great grandfather was a merchant marine. I guess that was an easy way to get a job with a paycheck to send money home. So that was what a lot of them did that didn't have a lot of education. That's what I think.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So my great grandfather was a merchant marine. He probably saved his little pennies and and came -- came back to Glasgow and he -- it said that um on some of the documents that he was a confectioner. So he had --

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- an ice cream and tobacco shop. So that's what he did. And then of course because that was in the family my gran -- my grandfather um had that shop. So he went away as a merchant marine when he was just out of school, did that for whatever the term is. Maybe you can only sign on for so many times. I'm not sure but all the documents I have there's un there's a lot of -- of ah documentation about that. So I guess I'd have to have someone that that knew exactly what all that meant. But a lot of it was um when he left -- the date when that ship left and when it came back and all that sort of stuff. So -- he probably thought Okay I'll I'll work as merchant marine for two or three years and save X amount of dollars and that will be his little nest egg. And the he can come home, get married, and start his life. So he -- his ah livelihood was the was the --

LEVINE:

Confectionary.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah. And the and -- so then that's when he married my grandmother.

LEVINE:

Now wait this is your great grandfather, right? Did you say?

ROMANCHUCK:

No this was my grandfather now.

LEVINE:

Grandfather. Okay.

ROMANCHUCK:

Gran -- the great grandfather first went as a merchant marine and and he -- they said he was a musician too -- as well but this little ice cream and tobacco shop started. And um so then my dad -- my grandfather --

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Grandfather.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- went away as a merchant marine, came back, and then ran that little shop. Then my dad out of school -- he went away to be a merchant marine. But I guess he didn't want to be a confectioner an -- and tobacconist. And he got a trade as a tool grinder and machinist. On his passport it says engineer, but that's not what we know as an engineer.

LEVINE:

I see.

ROMANCHUCK:

Here in here in North America.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

So that's what he did. And so um he went -- I think he was probably four -- four or five years because he was all over the world. He brought ah -- he told me about stories about in India where people would be -- you know just be de -- dead on the street. You'd just walk over them. He said it -- it really -- he didn't like India. He said it was a dirty city and I'm sure there was a lot of people and and --

LEVINE:

But he worked in the merchant marines for about five years you think?

ROMANCHUCK:

I would say four or five years.

LEVINE:

Five ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

If I'd have to look at all the documentation again but I think I think that was probably --. But he was in Bermuda, he came to New York, and he travelled around. Wherever the merchant marines went -- he he was on the ships. So --

LEVINE:

So he had seen the world essentially --

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

-- in a way.

ROMANCHUCK:

In his own little way. LEVINE Ya ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

And he had these two craved African heads they were made out of black wood of some sort. My sister has them actually. And they were Negro -- um people. What we call Negro or Black people but they were Africans. So they were carved heads that were bookends. We had those -- my sister still has them.

LEVINE:

Wow.

ROMANCHUCK:

And I have a little lamp um -- It's a little Chinese man pulling a pagoda with a little lampshade on. And that -- he said he bought that in -- China. I have that. And I mean I think that is -- that's it for his world travels.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Of -- thing -- bringing things back.L

LEVINE:

I see.

ROMANCHUCK:

But I'm glad I have it. It's something that's from his past.

LEVINE:

Yeah. What kind of a man was he? What was his temperament like?

ROMANCHUCK:

Um well he's Italian. I guess that's were I get my temper from (both laugh). He -- because he was such a nice looking man I think he -- ah had a different view point of of himself. Um th that was the movie star era so there was Carey Grant and um all those really nice looking men. So of course he'd be going to the dancing every night and everyone would be looking at him because he was a nice looking man. So I think he had grand plans for himself but because he didn't get the right breaks nothing like that ever happened. But um --

LEVINE:

You mean -- as far as being able to dance and being attractive.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes.

LEVINE:

He thought that maybe --

ROMANCHUCK:

[superimposed] Some thing would happen.

LEVINE:

-- someone would discover him.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

I think --

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

They all sort of had that um make believe ah part --

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Interesting.

ROMANCHUCK:

In their lives that they'd -- and that was their sort of entertainment. And then we get that with watching television. We um -- whatever television show you're watching you sort of (car horn) take one person's view point.

LEVINE:

And you identify with it.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

So I think that's what they did. They would identify (car horn) with whoever was the popular movie star --

LEVINE:

Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

--at the time.

LEVINE:

And you think your mother did that too?

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh absolutely.

LEVINE:

And your Aunt Carol?

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh see looked liked ah Carol Lombard [ph].

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And my mum -- I don't know who she would look like, Audrey Hepburn I guess.

LEVINE:

Wow.

ROMANCHUCK:

You know I mean they had --

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- certain ways about them that were attractive.

LEVINE:

Did thy talk to -- with you about you know that whole -- I mean it's such an interesting ah concept about you know the early movie and the effect they had on people. Um because it all was so kind of new and --

ROMANCHUCK:

They had a way about them. I mean they knew how to dress and how to fix their hair and how to put on makeup and do all that sort of stuff to make themselves look glamorous.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

They knew how to do all that. But because they didn't have the money and the social contacts and the education -- really -- they didn't really have um -- leave the level they were at. They didn't they didn't move socially anywhere. They just stayed (laughs) in the same economic level.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

They didn't change.

LEVINE:

Well I guess in Great Britain that's more -- true that --

ROMANCHUCK:

[superimposed] There.

LEVINE:

-- people don't --

ROMANCHUCK:

No.

LEVINE:

-- jump classes. --

ROMANCHUCK:

[superimposed] No you don't.

LEVINE:

-- the way they can do that more easily here.

ROMANCHUCK:

So so probably going to the -- the new country and the new life they probably had, though oh things will be better over there.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

And my dad did say he wanted to go and work in the states at the Bowing plant -- the air airplane plant. And he went down for an interview but in those days you had to be able to post a bond of five thousand dollars. Well that was a fortune to him. That was in the forties so I have no idea what that would be like. Fifty thousand dollars now or more wouldn't it.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So of course that didn't happen and he couldn't go. So he was back again living under sort of the um -- my nana kind of ruled the roost there about -- what should and shouldn't be done and how people should act and shouldn't act and all this sort of stuff. So I think there was a lot of tension there --

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- with ah -- my uncle Vic was a different personality (car horn) -- he got along with her but I I think my dad resented ah my nana telling -- like interfering. Of course in those days they told each other everything. Case that was their support group. They had no one else to talk to about what was wrong or what they didn't like and. But so then everybody got to know way too much. They didn't need to know all that and that would all come back to them. It just caused internal problems all the time. So instead of working out the problems between them it -- I think it caused more --

LEVINE:

Um.

ROMANCHUCK:

--problems.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So -- I mean I grew up thinking that um -- the there was always problems with them.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And problems with -- with my aunt and uncle and instead of having a nice family diner it was all what had happen yesterday (laughs) sort of thing. And so it wasn't a very close family that way -- I don't think.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

They weren't about to rise above what happen yesterday. It just dominated their whole lives.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

So. LEVINE Well now um you mentioned that your your your father was told that -- he could find work in Canada.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes.

LEVINE:

And so -- \ ROMANCHUCK: And he did with the CPR.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. Meanwhile your mother and you --

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh first of all -- sorry -- he worked at a lumber yard. Cause he didn't --

LEVINE:

In Canada?

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes. When he first got there he was at a lumber yard because he could get on with the CPR right away -- for some reason. I mean I think (car horn) just things just don't happen instantly but eventually he got that. He -- so when he was at the lumber yard is when he went down to the Bowing plant to see but he couldn't get a job there. So I think that's when the CPR job --

LEVINE:

Came.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- was the main focus

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- was after that. Yeah. He didn't come to a job (car horns) at the CPR that's -- I know that.

LEVINE:

Yeah. (car horn) So so then what he after he got the job he sent for you and your mother?

ROMANCHUCK:

No but my mum was there by that time.

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

So --he he landed in um September. Wasn't it on the passport there?

LEVINE:

Yeah. Yeah it was September.(car horns)

ROMANCHUCK:

And when I talk to my my cousin said she remembers when ah when I came and my mom -- to Victoria. Because she was living there with ah her mother by that time -- my aunt. And she said, I remember pictures of of Aunty -- well she called her Aunty Tet. They hy -- They shorted Henrietta to Etta and then they shortened Etta to Tet -- T-E-T.

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

When they came to Canada nobody liked that name and they they would tease her. So she changed her name to Terry.

LEVINE:

(laughs)

ROMANCHUCK:

So --

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Okay. From Henrietta --

ROMANCHUCK:

-- all my life my mother's been Terry.

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

She never called her -- she would sign Henrietta when she had to. But she -- if someone said what is you're name she'd say, Terry.

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Terry.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah. So um -- you asked me um --oh so my my dad came through Quebec in September.

LEVINE:

Okay.

ROMANCHUCK:

And mum came New York -- Ellis Island in New York And it had to be in October/November. And the reason I know that is because my ah sister Vicky was born in Victoria, in the Jubilee hos -- hospital, in February. So she had to have come --

LEVINE:

Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- between October, November, December.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

And and the earliest that my cousin could remember was when she saw um me and my -- my mother. She she didn't have a heavy coat on so she said it had to be in October or November.

LEVINE:

Oh I see.

ROMANCHUCK:

There's pictures showing us when we first got there on the steps outside of the house or wherever and I t was taken on a nice day.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

There was no coats on.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

Bu the other pictures from when my sister was born in February everyone had --

LEVINE:

[superimposed] It's freezing.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- coats on. Yeah.

LEVINE:

Ah ha ah ha. So why was it that you and your mother came through New York? Do you know?

ROMANCHUCK:

I don't know the reason for that. I think it was probably - - any any any ah trip like that the financial cost would be the most important thing -- or the availability. So why she didn't come through (car horn) with my dad to start with -- or maybe he just decided to go early so he could get -- a position. I don't know. But I would always - - I would always think to myself that it had to be a financial reason because of everything.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Maybe because he was a merchant marine he got to go on a ship because of of that at a less cost then if he had to go another way. I don't know why.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. (Yeah let me just check this). We're continuing here ah after ah discovering that the outlet was faulty. Okay. Um so we were taking ah what about -- wa oh they came to New York probably because of - - it they it was easier or less money to get a ticket to come through that way. Okay so you and your mother were travelling alone.

ROMANCHUCK:

Right. And I lived in a harness. My mother had a harness on me the whole time because she was scared I'd just walk off the edge of the -- of the deck.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

And she lived -- or she shared of our room -- a state room or what type of room it was -- with another woman and her child because they didn't allow women and men to mix. So that's what -- That's how she came over with another person. I never did ask her what that lady's name was. And I said to her where did you do your laundry or where did you wash the the diapers? And she said in the room. I just hung them up. So having the luxury of have a washer and dryer available to you just didn't happen (both laugh). And they had ah there meals were cafeteria style. So again I think it was the monetary aspect of -- the least expensive way to travel.. And it was probably -- instead of fine dinning it was cafeteria --

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- buffet style (laughs).

LEVINE:

Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

So that's how she spent her two or three months coming over.

LEVINE:

You you (pop) mean she was traveling two or three months?

ROMANCHUCK:

Well however long it took --

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Took. Oh okay.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- the ship to come over.

LEVINE:

Okay.

ROMANCHUCK:

Is it a is it a -- a month.

LEVINE:

By then I would think two weeks would have --

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh no.

LEVINE:

--done it. But --

ROMANCHUCK:

Okay well then that's how she travelled.

LEVINE:

-- but so in other words the ship left form Liverpool. It -- It's name -- the name?

ROMANCHUCK:

I'm no -- Know it.

LEVINE:

No. Don't know the --. And ah was there anything else -- and and your mother had been living with you.

ROMANCHUCK:

With her mother- in - law.

LEVINE:

And where was that?

ROMANCHUCK:

That would have been in London -- previous to leaving.

LEVINE:

Okay.

ROMANCHUCK:

Ah before that they lived in Breichen, in Scotland.

LEVINE:

And spell that one for the --

ROMANCHUCK:

B-R-E-I-C-H-E-N and it's on the east coast of Scotland.

LEVINE:

Okay. So that would be um where you were born?

ROMANCHUCK:

I was born in a Bushy Heath, Watford -- um Hertfordshire, in London. And the reason I was born there um -- during the war you weren't allowed to be in any hospital in the city because of the bombing so they asked anyone who was pre -- any of the women that were pregnant to go out to the outlying areas of the city. And so my mom had to go by train to that area. And that's where I was born.

LEVINE:

Um hum. And then it was after that that she moved -- with your grandmother?

ROMANCHUCK:

My um -- no she lived with my nana and my aunt before she was married.

LEVINE:

Oh oh okay.

ROMANCHUCK:

In in London. First of all they all lived in Scot -- in Glasgow. And then after my grandfather died on my mum's side -- her her dad -- then they moved to London. And my mum worked -- my grandmother worked there as a Milner.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And my mother and her and her sister -- my aunt worked in the shops. That's how they earned their living. And my mother met my father at the Palace, a dancing -- ah theatre whatever it was called. They called it the Pali. And that's where my mom met my dad. And um they -- after they were married my mum and my dad lived with my grandmother and aunt for a short time. And my um -- my aunt had been married to a fellow called Jack Dovi. He'd gone -- when the war broke out he'd gone away to sea and of course died. He never came back. And she was pregnant with her first child Jaclyn. A member of the Dovi family came to visit um Aunty Carol and my mum and and my grandmother and he -- to pay his respects. And um he ended up marrying my aunt. So my aunt was first of all married to Jack Dovi and then after he died she mar -- remar -- or married Vic Dovi --who really was Jack's cousin.

LEVINE:

Um hum. (car horn) Then did you and your mother go back to Scotland to live with your father's mother?

ROMANCHUCK:

That was just before we immigrated to Canada. But so -- in the in the early days of the war um my mum worked in a factory and my dad had a job elsewhere making tools. And they I think were coming back either to my grandmother's house or to my -- to my grandmother's house on my dad's side or on on my mother's side. I think they probably took turns or --I remember my mother talking about um the rationing and coupons and so. I really didn't -- we didn't really talk a lot in detail exactly but I will ask my cousin she'll she'll remember a little bit better than I will.

LEVINE:

Um hum um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And um so then my my co -- my Uncle Vic was in the in the Navy. So he got a posting at [not understood] British Columbia in Victoria, British Columbia. So he went over -- my aunt Aunty Carol went and and my cousin Jackie to be with their dad. Then my grandmother on my mum's side um decided she was going to immigrate to Canada. So everyone was over there except my father and my mother. And my Uncle Vic wrote back and said that there'd be work for my dad if he would come out. If the whole family would come out.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So my dad went by himself first. I have no idea why. But he went through Quebec. And he first worked in Victoria in a lumber yard and he wanted to go down ah (I guess that didn't suit him very well and he wanted to make a better life) and he he went down to apply at the Bowing plant. In Seattle there's a big Bowing plant there and ah he had to at that time post the -- a bond for himself of five thousand dollars. Well he just didn't have that kind of money and had no way of rising that type of money so that aspect of that ty --having a better life down there well just psh -- didn't happen. So um by that time um my mum -- my mum came a month after my dad we -- we think. If he if he landed in September then my mum came um by a freighter ship through Ellis Island in New York -- for some reason. And she she came either October November were just not sure -- what the date was.

LEVINE:

Was there anything else about the voyage that you remember?

ROMANCHUCK:

I don't remember anything about the voyage.

LEVINE:

Oh or anything that you were told.

ROMANCHUCK:

But when she -- she would she just said it wasn't a luxury liner and it it wasn't that much fun.

LEVINE:

Um hum. So how did -- how did your mother get with you from New York City?

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh well that -- she told me the story about that.

LEVINE:

Okay.

ROMANCHUCK:

And the picture book that I have the -- the picture of me in my buggy um on Ellis Island -- she took the picture of that with the statue of Liberty in the background. That was a very good photo of her to take actually.

LEVINE:

Yeah it was. Did she ever talk about Ellis Island or anything that happened then?

ROMANCHUCK:

Well I think -- I think what happened in those days -- you were just herded -- told to go here, or do this do that and and it was just following orders.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And she didn't say how many -- to me it wasn't a very long time that she spent so she must have had the money to book passage on the on a train.

LEVINE:

Train. Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So she got on a train and I think she went up to Montréal.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

um I don't know what -- where the rail lines went in those days -- I --

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

They probably haven't changed it. Is the direct line from here to Montreal or here to Toronto? It would be Montreal first.

LEVINE:

I would think Montreal.

ROMANCHUCK:

Right. So she went. Now all this time um I was a year and a half old and she was ah six or seven months pregnant -- no she'd be five months pregnant (car horn) with my sister. Um she would be going the least inexpensive way and she said that when she got on the train in Canada a conductor felt sorry for her when he finally figured out how -- that she was going over to Victoria. And he let her sleep in a in a sleeping birth.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Because she was sleeping up. (laughs) Or sitting up sleeping so I guess he just felt sorry for her and he let her lie down in the bo - - birth.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So she said that they were kind to her on the plane -- or the train.

LEVINE:

Train. Ah ha. And then did she tell you about arriving in Victoria? And was your father there to meet the train? And --

ROMANCHUCK:

She didn't say anything about that. Um I think she was just probably so lonely to to see the rest of her family um she just -- she really enjoyed their company.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

I know that. It made her feel happy and safe. Well she's the youngest so there's the difference --

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- as to being the oldest. And um so I think she was just glad to see everyone because she was the last to come over.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And being pregnant and having a year and a half old child probably wouldn't be the best way to travel (both laugh).

LEVINE:

Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

So I'm sure she's happy to be there that someone would look after me and give her a break.

LEVINE:

Yeah. So um those early -- that early time ah did you then - - did your father live then with your ah --

ROMANCHUCK:

They all lived with Aunty Carol and Uncle Vic. I think my nana had her own place by this time. Not really sure. But my mom and my dad lived with Aunty Carol and Uncle Vic for a while till they got their own place. And we lived on Quadra [ph] Street. But the very first street that we lived on I can't -- I have to ask my cousin cause she she told me the name. Cause I said, Oh Quadra [ph] Street -- she said no that picture wasn't taken at Quadra Street it was the first house we lived in. I said, oh I didn't even know that name. Because the whole time they talked about Victoria it was the Quadra Street house that they talked about.

LEVINE:

Okay. So so um that's were your gr -- your nana was being a Milner?

ROMANCHUCK:

No.

LEVINE:

No.

ROMANCHUCK:

Nana worked by that time -- she was a Milner in London.

LEVINE:

London.

ROMANCHUCK:

Ah I guess sh -- I don't know why she didn't ah get a job as a Milner in Victoria but she worked at the Jubilee hospital as a nursing assistant.

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

And it was funny because the fellow that I'm married to now we went just on a -- a trip um to Victoria and we were in a campground. (and this is when I was young) We had a van. And we started talking with a -- an older fellow cause at that time I was only twenty-five or so -- so he would have been in his fifties or sixties. And my husband and this fellow went out fishing and we just got talking (car horn). And he had worked at the Jubilee Hospital and knew my nana it was -- it was one of those chance meetings.

LEVINE:

And it was your nana who I think you described before we were on tape as wearing a hat and gloves and furs.

ROMANCHUCK:

She -- when she came --

LEVINE:

Was that --

ROMANCHUCK:

When she -- when we after we moved to -- to Calgary she would always come through once a year for a holiday and she would get off the train -- cause that's how they travelled in those days -- was the train and she'd always have her lovely suit on and her her um fox um (I don't know what you call it ). --

LEVINE:

Stoll.

ROMANCHUCK:

Stoll. Right. And it had the little face with the eyes and the feet and the tail. And it would be draped around her. And she always had her broach on and powder and rouge and lipstick and hat and gloves course -- always gloves.

LEVINE:

And the shoes that came up high in front.

ROMANCHUCK:

And the shoes (both laugh. Yeah. They were slip on shoes. They weren't laced and that but they they came --

LEVINE:

Came up.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- up high just below your ankle bone.

LEVINE:

Ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

Cause I remember looking at her shoes a lot both laugh) -- for some reason. And --

LEVINE:

So she was quite a lady.

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh yes. She she was always dressed to the best of her ability.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

And she actually -- ah I think she furnished her place by going to a lot of ah thrift stores and second hand place cause she always had all these lovely --. And I still have a lot of her her teacups and all these things tat she acquired. And um she actually started -- she was the person who started me quilting because she'd gone to one of these thrift store and had um perched it -- purchased um a kit that someone had cut out all the pieces so it would be like appliqué -- what we know as appliqué. And it was two long panels and they were matching -- like they were mirror imaging on each side.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And everything had been basted ion but not permanently sown. So she gave that to me and said -- and my nickname was Larry -- they called me Larry. My name was Lorain but I mean I grew up with my nana and my -- everyone calling me Larry --

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

--In the family. And she said here Larry um I know you can finish this. And that was my first bedspread when we were married -- was this blue appliquéd --

LEVINE:

(laughs)

ROMANCHUCK:

--flowers. And I went on to make curtains to match it -- a bed ruffle and things like that. So you know, I don't know if I would have gotten really into quitting if I hadn't had that to work on. So it took me a long to do it.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

And I wished I hadn't thrown it out. Of course in those days --

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- it was old and faded so I threw it out.

LEVINE:

Well know your grandmother -- ah that grandmother do do -- could you saying anything about her adaptation. Having uprooted herself ah at an older --

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

--then most.

ROMANCHUCK:

[superimposed] I think she was -- She was a victim of circumstances her ah fa -- her husband -- his name was James Fatheringham [ph] Riff [ph]. Now he worked um -- when they lived in Scotland he worked at um a mill or something. But he was always dressed. I have pictures of him with the hat and the topcoat and everything. And he was they call a man's man type of person. He would always -- there was work and family and his life and he would always go out at night. So whether he went to clubs or what he did I don't know but he was always out in the evening. And um I remember um -- with my dad -- or my grandfather died when he was quite young and when I was younger I'd say to my mother, ah well what did he die of ? Well the flu or this or that an and I could tell that there was something not right.

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Something behind that. Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So (laughs) after I was married I guess I was asking again -- that was my problem asking too many questions -- and she said I might as well tell you you're married now. And I said what? And she said --

LEVINE:

(laughs) Now that you're married you can handle it.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah. And said one one day I came home and she found her dad had had put his head in the oven.

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

So my mother found my dad cause I guess my grandmother was out working. (laughs) I said, oh why? She said well in those days what he probably had was Syphilis so he thought he was done anyway -- finished and he might as well and maybe the same that went with it. I don't know. (car horn) So I had that -- that took me a while to digest that one. I said, oh that's interesting. So my nana -- I think after that happened I think she had a very um closed door to that aspect of life anymore. She probably just didn't trust in any man any more.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Thinking well it was going to happen again or who knows. She just --

LEVINE:

She wrote off being a a a a part of a couple.

ROMANCHUCK:

Dependant -- dependant on any man. So I think that's why she went into the mill -- she said she -- she said that ah after that happened -- of course they had to sell the house or they couldn't afford to live there and she said we lived above a shop. I said, well where did you moved to next? Well we lived a -- above a shop or wherever and I think she probably got a job in that shop --probably was a milliners. So she probably started as a milliner's assistant.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

So that's how um she just probably had to live from hand to mouth and make things. She wouldn't have had a huge pension or --

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- or life insurance or anything. She'd probably have to make her own way, right? So that's what they did in the early days. And then she probably got feed up with that and that's when they moved to London.

LEVINE:

Well did -- how would you say she adapted to Canada?

ROMANCHUCK:

I think she kept a lot of her British um attitudes and code of ethics. (laughs) I'll never forget this. We weren't allowed to blow our noise in the room -- we had to leave the room. I still annoys me when someone blows their noise.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Um we we weren't allowed to speak unless spoken to. I mean there was all these little codes that you um -- were brought up with.

LEVINE:

Now did everybody enforce that or was that coming from your grandmother or?

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh um -- my mother of the two of the sisters my mother was probably the most freer with with that. She wasn't as um strict. But my aunt and my nana were both like that. They didn't um tolerate a lot of noise and disruption and all that sort of stuff. It was they ran the show sort of thing.

LEVINE:

And how about your father?

ROMANCHUCK:

Um well he just gave up after awhile (laughs). I just -- I don't think he liked it and I think that when -- what they said, of he drank a lot -- he did and that. Well he probably just went down to the pub. He did have a lot of money to drink with. But I think he would probably -- two or three beer would probably be enough in --

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

That's how he coped with the stress of it cause he didn't have money to join an athletic club or (laughs) golf club or any of that sort of stuff. So I think that was his outlet.

LEVINE:

Um hum. Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And then that's when he saw the opportunity to move to Calgary to look for the C -- so the excuse was moved to Calgary, get a job with the CPR, but get away from nana and Aunty Carol and all tha and start their own life.

LEVINE:

Um hum. Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So that's why my mom and dad came so --when they moved to Victoria I was a year and a half old. My sister Vicky was born their in 1948 -- and my brother Paul was born there in 1950 and then they moved to Calgary a year later. And then I have -- the last brother, Bradley was born in 1954.

LEVINE:

I see.

ROMANCHUCK:

Cause there is eight years between myself and my brother.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. So um -- compared with your friends growing up and all that would you say that your treatment at home based on --- where your mother and father were coming from -- was different in any way then the kids that you hung around with? Any sort of old world ways that were -- made you --

ROMANCHUCK:

Well their accent. I -- you were sort of ashamed of it in a way because people you say, what did she say? Cause they couldn't understand them.

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

And a lot of the words that I said had that pronunciation --

LEVINE:

Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

Till you go to school and you learn -- well it doesn't -- cause roof -- I mean they'd say ra -- the rauf. A get up -- get down from the rauf. If we were up climbing on -- and I would probably say the rauf and they'd say (makes noise of shock/ dislike) they would understand that. So you learn to adapt quickly because you didn't want to be different. And then have red hair and freckles you were always different. So that was --

LEVINE:

What was a hairy freckles?

ROMANCHUCK:

Red hair and freckles.

LEVINE:

Oh red hair and freckles.

ROMANCHUCK:

Cause they -- they'd say (sings red head red head fire in the wood shed) (both laugh) I grew up with that. And ah you know you just -- and having four -- four in the family was a large family. That's what I remember.

LEVINE:

Really.

ROMANCHUCK:

How many brothers and sisters do you have? They'd have one or two -- maybe three. Four was a bit excessive.

LEVINE:

Ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

That's what I remember.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

Um with the customs um -- the the adult were the most important people as apposed to the children are the most important people nowadays -- it seems.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Everything revolves around the wishes and desires of children. I think they've gone too far that way. SO we were never included in any any conversations that I remember. You came in to visit, you were sent outside to play or in this room -- whatever. You never sat and were really part of --

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- the adult conversation. But then they were always just moaning on about each other so who wanted to be part of that conversation. (both laugh) We were too young to be part of that. But it wasn't the same way that families are now. I know -- I remember that.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

And you really -- your opinion didn't really matter till you were like a teenager or --

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

That's what I really remember.

LEVINE:

Do you remember other people who had immigrated in in in your -- in Calv -- Calgary.

ROMANCHUCK:

We live ah -- when we first lived in Calgary we lived in riverside which was a huge immigration collection a -- area. There was a lot --

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

--of Italian people but -- ah my mother was really -- she really was sort of ah she kept to herself. She wasn't really -- unfriendly. She'd be very friendly to you but that was as far as it went. As far as forming relationships she just -- she was very selective about that.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So she became really god friends with a couple down the road. Their last name was Speilman, so they were German. And um the one lady's name was um -- (oh dear what was her first name) hum I'll remember in a minute. And then another couple and that couple just had -- TV just came into being so we were allowed -- we'd all get the pajamas on and have our bath. And the bath was once a week in a galvanized tub and I remember that. We all were in and out of the same water.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

I remember that so the hair and -- I mean I'm sure we were kept clean enough. But It wasn't like having a shower every day. So having a bath was a big ordeal because the four of us had to be in and out of this tub (both laughs) Um so we'd all have our bath --

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

--and be ready and we'd go down and watch Roy Rodgers or Hop Along Cassidy. Um the Ed Sullivan Show was like an adult show it was really -- oh Roy Rodgers that was the big one.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

So they were the first people on the block to have a television so they were kind enogh to let us go there. So she must have been friends with them at some point for that to happen.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

And she kept um friends with the Speilmans (oh remember their name). When they moved away to the um the northeast part of town she was -- and we moved -- she still kept that ah that friendship for awhile.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

But not the couple with the TV (both laugh) for some reason. But -- but my mother didn't drive and there was no money -- for anything other then food so it wasn't um --

LEVINE:

How did your mother feel about immigrating to Canada?

ROMANCHUCK:

I think she was happy to get away from um dad's mother.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And that life of being restricted. I don't think she liked that.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Because all her life she would go -- she would be in excess or more flamboyant than than normal. And I think it was just a a release of of the control and the war -- I'm sure the war too.

LEVINE:

Um hum. How about your father -- how did he adjust --

ROMANCHUCK:

He --

LEVINE:

-- or adapt?

ROMANCHUCK:

Well (clears throat) I think because he finally realized he was locked into the CPR forever -- he he gambled a lot. They have bookies at --

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- organized stuff like that at work. So he would book -- he would bet on the racing and that was a huge sore point always with them because the bookies would take the money. In those days they got paid cash. I remember him sitting at (car horn) the kitchen table counting out the money. This was for the rent, this was for that and that the rent was twenty-five dollars a month.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

That I had to take it down on the bus.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And um there was so much money for food -- whatever. You know that sort of thing. And I remember him counting it all up. And of course before it even came home the bookies had taken what he owed them. So there was always a huge fight about that.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And I think they were paid weekly or sa --- biweekly. They weren't paid by the month.

LEVINE:

Wow.

ROMANCHUCK:

So -- every two weeks there was a huge fight about the money.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

And then my mom got feed up with all that and she went out ah -- I think she's got a very independent streak, my mother -- or did have -- so I think she just got feed up with the fighting and decided fine I'm going to earn money. So she started clean um -- a bi -- um businesses at night.

LEVINE:

Oh. Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

And the first job that I remember -- cause I use to go with her -- was um was called Hollings Head secretarial cle-- institute. So that's were you went to learn to be a secretary. So we'd -- I'd go with her on ah Sundays. I remember that.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And then she worked cleaning a lawyer's office. And then she got a job in the school which wasn't far from -- where we lived. And there was a lady there called ah -- Mary Laiden [ph] who was Scottish decent so she um -- she had her own little world then --her own little support group -- other then my mother and Aunty.

LEVINE:

Um hum. Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And so my -- by this time um -- sort of it would have been in the sixties -- Uncle Vic was finished with the Navy and he and Aunty Carol and the two -- my two cousins decided to move to Calgary to be with Ted and Frank (laughs) and then my Nana came -- as well.

LEVINE:

I see.

ROMANCHUCK:

So they all ended up living in Calgary.

LEVINE:

And how -- was that oaky with your father?

ROMANCHUCK:

No. (both laugh) They were all here again. But he and Uncle Vic joined the Elks Golf Club so they had an outlet there.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

And so they'd do the golfing and that. But they kept their lives always from us. Like it was -- we'd go -- we'd drive up to Banff [ph] that was the family outing and my dad would fall asleep at the wheel and go off the side of the road. And of course going thirty miles an hour -- I guess cause they didn't drive fast. And there was these huge lien ups always to go up there. No one was hurt or anything but that was the end of the outings cause my mother get scared that you know he was going to kill us all. (both laugh) Cause he'd fall asleep at the wheel after he'd been in the hot springs so --

LEVINE:

(laughs)

ROMANCHUCK:

And we went up to -- I remember going up to Sylvan Lake which was a little -- area just north of the city. And you'd drive up to the lake and camp. Oh my dad -- they didn't camp. They had no idea. I think they were going to rent a cabin. And that didn't go well at all either so we didn't do much as a family. And I think they just didn't have the skills. They didn't have a family that did that so they didn't -- they never learned --

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- how to enjoy a family life. We'd got to the drive in. Well that was fine cause no one would talk to each other you just --

LEVINE:

[superimposed] Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

--watch TV and so we got along -- somehow -- somewhat. But we never did things with Aunty Carol and Uncle Vic. We'd -- the odd diner but -- and this is the truth -- my aunt had plastic on her pink couch.

LEVINE:

Hum. I remember those days.

ROMANCHUCK:

You weren't allowed to sit on the couch. It was either the floor or outside. (both laugh) That was it. So that was our life. Um -- you k Now it it wasn't -- it was a very I'd say a very regimented compared to what life is like now. And it wasn't -- it revolved around the adults and not the children.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

Was how I saw it.

LEVINE:

Could you say anything about um what it meant to you or or to any other member of your family the fact that you had been born in Europe and and and had you know come to to Canada rather than being a native Canadian.

ROMANCHUCK:

Well when It was --

LEVINE:

Ah what difference it made?

ROMANCHUCK:

When I was younger you felt weird because your different because everyone else was from here. So because you were different you thought well you're not the same or less.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

You always thought that. Now that I'm older I thought -- I've thought to myself -- boy would my life be different if I was living in England. I would have the life I have now. I wouldn't have the daughter I have now. I would be a different person. Or I could have been living in New Zealand because my dad if fi my aunt and uncle hadn't gone to Victoria the next person to go to would have been the other aunt and uncle in New Zealand. And we would have been living there.

LEVINE:

Do you th -- how -- when you think of the difference in your lives or in your --

ROMANCHUCK:

[superimposed] Its huge.

LEVINE:

-- what your life would have been. Do you do you --

ROMANCHUCK:

[superimposed] I would have an accent.

LEVINE:

-- make comparison? I mean do you -- do you compare it --

ROMANCHUCK:

[superimposed] Oh always.

LEVINE:

-- favorably or dis -- unfavorably or --?

ROMANCHUCK:

I probably -- no I have the ability to see the good and bad. I mean I don't feel sorry for myself.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

But I -- I'm very aware that I would be a different person. And um -- when ah we lived -- Ken and I, my husband, lived in Australia from 1981 to 85 and he went there for -- for a job. He had a job to go to. Excuse me. And um that was a wonderful experience because we got A to travel -- all expenses were paid for -- and to live in a country is completely different than visiting.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

So you get to be friends with people -- you share their lives -- you see they all have the same wants and desires. Really basically they want to have a good life for their family and -- the less -- least amount of problems as possible. It's just like everyone else. Um but there are differences. They -- to me Australia had a very um -- still has a very English way about them all. They think they are really Americanized compared tot the British people but they're quite British really -- in there little customs and how they do things. And and I really enjoyed it there. I felt -- I felt more at home there -- I felt a little -- I felt at ease there. It didn't bother me -- the differences. I bothered my husband because he felt they were being to familiar about everything.

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

But it's just from the background that he comes from.

LEVINE:

And he's Canadian?

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah he's he's um -- ah Ukrainian decent.

LEVINE:

Oh ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

So I mean that's another story (both laugh). So his way of interacting with people is all um -- It's more the ethic way of of dealing with people. But um -- anyway It's it just I felt at home in England or Scotland --

LEVINE:

It so in in in--

ROMANCHUCK:

Australia.

LEVINE:

--in Australia.

ROMANCHUCK:

I didn't bother me.

LEVINE:

Because probably of your of your background, right?

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Right right well before -- I ca -- I'm trying to gage the end of this but --

ROMANCHUCK:

Right.

LEVINE:

Um what would you say is the -- you're proudest of that you've done ah in your life? What makes feel --

ROMANCHUCK:

Me?

LEVINE:

-- a lot of satisfaction?

ROMANCHUCK:

Personally?

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

Um well hm -- ah I guess with um -- I mean when I was very young I worked so I didn't do anything that was outstanding or memorable there. I was able to bring home a wage and support our family --

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- sort of thing. And then um as I got older -- after we came back from Australia -- I mean I guess the friendships that you you make with people.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

You can't place a value on that.

LEVINE:

Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

And I still have friends from there. Um then when we came back to Calgary um things were easier. We were older and had a little bit of money and we joined a golf club. And -- I I went into lots of competitions and and and won things that -- so I guess there were certain goals that -- you set out for and you obtain. So personally that has been satisfying to me. It makes you feel good. And I've joined clubs and held positions with with certain club and --

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- things like that. And that's given me satisfaction there that you -- you know start out and accomplish something.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

Um you know I haven't wa won any Noble priest -- peace prizes (both laugh) or anything like that. But you know there's been situations that have arisen -- you learn how to cope with em and have people still like you afterwards (both laugh). So t hose are accomplishments. It's all to do with relationships and friend -- friendships I guess.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. Okay.

ROMANCHUCK:

It's about -- So and I have good friends. I've had good friends wherever I've been.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Um.

LEVINE:

And is there anything else that you can think of about ah immigration, the effect on you or your family?

ROMANCHUCK:

Well.

LEVINE:

Before we close -- just --

ROMANCHUCK:

I know.

LEVINE:

-- anything.

ROMANCHUCK:

I think that watching how my mother interacted with her sister and her mother -- with my sister ah and my brothers I've tried not to ah let our relationships go back down to that level of disharmony and disagreements all the time. And ah specially when both my mother -- my dad pasted away was executor of both their wills. So it was dealing with the sibling um and wishes about the parents -- how I perceived their wishes dealing with the financial settlements of everything and that wasn't um -- there were some incidences that weren't -- could have gone bad -- so that we would be in um in harmony.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

And that's happened a lot in families. So I said this isn't ah -- this is not going to -- this part of our lives is not going to um end up making us enemies. It just isn't, So we're just going to get through this and ah so -- I I was proud of that part.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

Of of we're still speak (both laugh). And were friends. You know we're -- my my brother actually was here -- the youngest one. He comes here on business a lot. He lives in San Sana Monica and and we spent three days. He left -- he would have been here but he left to go back because of the rain.

LEVINE:

Oh.

ROMANCHUCK:

He had no idea how bad it was gonna be and so he just wanted to get out um -- he left on on Friday but ah he made an effort to be here when we were here and --

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah. He --

LEVINE:

So you're -- so you brought sis -- your sister and your brothers are they um here in the states?

ROMANCHUCK:

Ah no. My sister lives in White Rock.

LEVINE:

That's Canada?

ROMANCHUCK:

Yes by Vancouver. My brother -- my one brother lives in Calgary and the other one lives in Sana Monica.

LEVINE:

Oh. Ah ha. Yeah. Okay well is there anything else? We're just nearly at the end of the tape. Anything you'd like to state -- say before -- we close?

ROMANCHUCK:

Um about my parents -- you know I think they tried to give us a better life. You know in their own little way (car horn). When you think back to it.

LEVINE:

Hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

I think they did.

LEVINE:

Ah ha. Okay well I want to thank you very much. A lovely interview.

ROMANCHUCK:

[not understood] It was um -- it was an unexpected pleasure.

LEVINE:

(laughs) Thanks. Yeah I guess -- I guess you feel moved by the fact that you know they tried and there were -- there were always conflicts but somehow they persisted --

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

--and it sounds like you've benefited from perhaps --

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh a lot. Yeah.

LEVINE:

-- the things they -- that you wish they had otherwise.

ROMANCHUCK:

Yeah. And it's too bad they weren't here. Um so I could tell them that you know -- it might have been an interest to them or not. I don't know. I think the war had a lot of um impact on them. They didn't really um let themselves get too in -- involved with things. I think that was the shame of of of all that because you know they never knew if the building was going to be there when they came home, or people that they were friends with whether they'd be friends with them again, or their job or I don't -- I think it was a very um unsettled time of their life. They didn't really have anything that was theirs. They didn't own a house. They didn't own a car. Their job could go tomorrow. So there was no real stable environment.

LEVINE:

Ah ha.

ROMANCHUCK:

Not like we have. That what I -- that's how I felt they lived.

LEVINE:

Yeah and of course you didn't know them before but but --

ROMANCHUCK:

Well --

LEVINE:

After the war they they had those qualities and you -- you attribute them to having lived through a very trying time.

ROMANCHUCK:

Oh a very difficult time.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

ROMANCHUCK:

I mean we -- our most difficult decisions are what are we going to wear today and (laughs). You know we take so much --

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

-- for granted. They they didn't have a lot. I mean they weren't like the people who were in a concentration camp so that's for sure.

LEVINE:

Right.

ROMANCHUCK:

And what they had to go through but um you know compared to what most people have today they -- they had to be content with very little. I'm sure they were.

LEVINE:

Um hum. Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

But um I think they thought coming here would be the -- the answer (laughs) to to what ever it was they were dreaming and hoping for. They probably did enjoy their lives. Um you know maybe -- we we [not understood] -- the home was happy. I remember that part of it.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

Except for the money issue -- there was never enough money. But then that's the same thing as now.

LEVINE:

For a lot of people.

ROMANCHUCK:

But you know they were -- there was lots of happy times.

LEVINE:

Um hum.

ROMANCHUCK:

I'm sure of that.

LEVINE:

Yeah oh. Okay well ah thank you again. And I have been speaking with Lorain Rom --Ro -- Romanchuck.

ROMANCHUCK:

Romanchuck.

LEVINE:

Why can't I say Romanchuck.

ROMANCHUCK:

I don't know (both laugh).

LEVINE:

Romanchuck. Um who who did come here as a year and a half year old um in 1947 with her mother and settled -- came -- EI-1343 ROMANCHUCK 1