LEVINE:

This is Janet Levine for the National Park Service, and I'm here today with Mr. and Mrs. Costa. It's Manuel and Matilda Costa, who came through Ellis Island arriving on January 1st, 1949, and Manuel was thirty-two at the time, and Matilda was twenty-eight, and they came both from Azores, Portugal. Okay. Well, I'm very happy that the machine is working and we can proceed, and I'm very interested in your story because you came a lot later than many people did who came through Ellis Island. Why don't we start by, maybe, Manuel, you say where you were born.

MANUEL:

I was born in St. Michael, Azores, Portugal.

LEVINE:

And were you in St. Michael the whole time before you came?

MANUEL:

That's another story. I came over here with my mother on 19, uh, '19, I think, 1919. So my mother was a widow, and I was, I think I was three-and-a-half years old, something like that. And we stayed over here for, let's see, three, I go backwards, seven. Still, three-and-a-half years or four years. And my mother go back with me when they had the Depression. In those days there was no work. She's looking for work, there's no work, so she went back to the island.

LEVINE:

Do you remember anything about the United States from when you were between three-and-a-half and six?

MANUEL:

Just a little, you know. I was a young kid, and I played with the other, I remember, with the other kids, you know. And before I went there I was supposed to go to school, until my mother decided to go back to Azores.

LEVINE:

Were you just traveling, you and your mother, just the two of you?

MANUEL:

Just me and my mother. Yeah.

LEVINE:

And do you have brothers and sisters?

MANUEL:

No. My father died when I was fourteen months old, so.

LEVINE:

Oh. What was your mother's name, and her maiden name?

MANUEL:

My mother's name was Frances B. Costa. B is Botelho.

FRESTA:

Francesca.

MANUEL:

Francesca. We call over here, St. Francis.

LEVINE:

And how, what is your birth date?

MANUEL:

My birth date, you know, is August 28th, 1917.

LEVINE:

Okay. Now, when you think about that time when you were in America before you went back, what do you think about? Do you remember any experiences at all?

MANUEL:

No. I can't remember nothing. When I go back, I don't remember nothing from St. Michael. So I remember something from America.

LEVINE:

What?

MANUEL:

I remember they got a lot of toys over here. My mother bought me a tricycle and things like that, you know. When I went back there there was nothing there like this, so.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So, it was very different.

MANUEL:

Very different. So when I got there I went to school there.

LEVINE:

And what, and tell me about the school.

MANUEL:

The school over there? I liked it, you know, I liked the school over there. I had the fourth grade over there, so.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Was it everybody in one class, or did . . .

MANUEL:

Well, the boys was in one class. They had first, second, third and fourth grades, you know, in one class, the boys, and the girls on the other.

LEVINE:

And it went to fourth grade, that school?

MANUEL:

To fourth grade, yeah. Fourth grade, you know, is almost as long as high school here, probably more. Probably I learned more than the kids from high school here. He knows that, too. ( referring to someone else in the room ) No, he didn't get to fourth grade, yeah.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, then why don't we bring you in. Matilda, what town were you born in?

MATILDA:

What time I born?

LEVINE:

What town?

MATILDA:

Oh, Taunton.

LEVINE:

You were born here in Taunton. And when you went back to the Azores?

MATILDA:

Yeah, three years old, yeah.

LEVINE:

When you were three years old. And who did you go back with? Who was with you?

MATILDA:

Oh, my father.

LEVINE:

Your father.

MATILDA:

Because of the . . .

MANUEL:

Or your mother and your two brothers.

FRESTA:

Yeah, and two brothers.

LEVINE:

Your father, mother and two brothers. And what was your father's name?

MATILDA:

Thomas Paiva.

LEVINE:

How do you spell his last name?

MATILDA:

Thomas Paiva.

FRESTA:

P-A . . .

MANUEL:

I-V-A.

LEVINE:

Okay. And your mother, do you remember her first name and her maiden name?

MATILDA:

Her first name, uh, Mary, uh, Mary Raulino.

MANUEL:

Maria.

MATILDA:

Maria Raulino.

MANUEL:

Maria Raulino.

MATILDA:

Raulino.

LEVINE:

And your brother?

MATILDA:

My two brothers, my older brother is Eddie Paiva, and then the younger one is Thomas Paiva.

LEVINE:

So you went back when you were three.

MATILDA:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

And how long did you stay?

MATILDA:

Till I got married.

MANUEL:

Until she come over.

MATILDA:

Came over here.

LEVINE:

Okay. And your birth date?

MATILDA:

December 2, 1921.

LEVINE:

And do you remember, you probably can't remember anything here before you came, and went back.

MATILDA:

No.

LEVINE:

And were you in the same village?

MANUEL:

Yeah, in the same village.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Okay. Well, what do you remember about the village? Can you tell me what St. Michael was like?

MATILDA:

( she laughs ) I remember a lot of things. Play, as a girl, talk with the boys. ( she laughs )

LEVINE:

Was it a place where people fished or . . .

MANUEL:

It was.

LEVINE:

Was it a place where people grew food? What kind of, what kind of things did people do in St. Michael's, for work?

MANUEL:

Well, I work on the farms. In those days that's what they do there.

LEVINE:

And mostly they grew . . .

MANUEL:

They grew corn, corn, wheat. That's what they do, in those days, that's what they do, most. Now it's all pastures, you know. There is cows and everything. It changed a lot over there.

LEVINE:

Can you, can you remember anything about the town that was different from the United States? What do you think of when you think of St. Michael's when you were little?

MANUEL:

Well, St. Michael, you know, I went there last year and I went there, not twenty years ago. They changed. They changed a lot. So . . .

LEVINE:

Well, tell me about when you were a boy. What was it like there then?

MANUEL:

A poor country. You know, some people, they had some food to eat, some don't, you know.

LEVINE:

What did your father do?

MANUEL:

I don't know. My father was . . .

MATILDA:

A farmer.

MANUEL:

No, he's not a farmer. They're raising cows. I don't know what you'd call him.

LEVINE:

A shepherd? Or a cowboy? ( she laughs )

MANUEL:

A dairy, a dairy farmer.

LEVINE:

A dairy farmer. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And did your mother have to work?

MANUEL:

No. The wives over there, they just stayed home.

LEVINE:

Did she grow things in a garden, or no.

MANUEL:

No, no. She just, the wives there just cooked and that's all they do.

LEVINE:

And how did you get along then? Your father had died and your mother . . .

MANUEL:

I don't know. I was too small. I don't know.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Did you have other family around, aunts and uncles?

MANUEL:

I had cousins, yeah.

LEVINE:

Do you remember, were you a religious family?

MANUEL:

Yeah, Catholic.

LEVINE:

And did you go to church a lot?

MANUEL:

Yes, I went to church every Sunday, yeah, and holidays, yeah.

LEVINE:

And what did people do for enjoyment, for entertainment, that you remember?

MANUEL:

They had feasts. In the summertime, you know, they had Spirito Santo feasts, and all over the place, you know, every Sunday almost. And in the wintertime, you know, you just stay home, just like over here. But no snow over there, it's rain and cold.

LEVINE:

Cold?

MANUEL:

Yeah, it was cold there, yeah.

LEVINE:

How cold would it get?

MANUEL:

We lived without heat in the house, you know, but it's still chilly.

LEVINE:

And did, so you went to school, too? Did you go to the same school?

MATILDA:

I went to school . . .

MANUEL:

Separate schools, yeah. Separate. I was, I was older, so . . .

MATILDA:

Not to fourth.

MANUEL:

No, to third grade.

MATILDA:

To third grade.

LEVINE:

And what do you think of when you think of when you were a little girl in that town, in St. Michael's. What are the things you remember?

MATILDA:

I don't remember much anyway.

MANUEL:

Played with the boys. ( they laugh )

MATILDA:

Play with the boys? I like to play with the boys better than the girls.

LEVINE:

You were a tomboy?

MATILDA:

Yeah. ( she laughs ) ( voices garbled )

LEVINE:

When did you meet him?

MATILDA:

Uh, I meet him around, uh, around, uh, fourteen.

MANUEL:

After school.

MATILDA:

After school.

MANUEL:

I think it's about thirteen, fourteen, yeah.

MATILDA:

Fourteen years old, or something.

LEVINE:

Yeah? And . . .

MANUEL:

That's the only one. For me, anyway. No other girls, and no other boys. I think I'm leaving, I don't know.

LEVINE:

What did you like about him?

MANUEL:

Oh, I liked his (?). What can I say? ( she laughs )

LEVINE:

Do you know why you . . .

MATILDA:

What can I say? I used to like him.

MANUEL:

You used to? You don't like him now? ( they laugh )

LEVINE:

What did you like about her? Do you remember?

MANUEL:

She was a good-looking girl when she was young.

LEVINE:

Well, do you remember the circumstances under which, you were married over there? Now, did you have a big wedding, a small wedding?

MANUEL:

A regular wedding, yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And then, what made you decide to come here?

MANUEL:

Uh, in those days, you know. Those days, see, either the one who was citizens come first, and sometimes they call the family and sometimes don't. Sometimes they stay over here three or four years and go back, when they get a few dollars, you know. And they never stayed here. So, you know, I decided to come over here. I decided to come over here, make a few dollars, and go back there, and still the first year when I got here, in the wintertime, you know, with the clothes I brought from the old country, you know. I said to my wife a few times, you know, "This is the last winter. Next winter I'm going to be over there in the old country."

MATILDA:

He never come.

MANUEL:

But, you know, you raise the kids, you have another girl after, because when she came she was pregnant, six months. The first baby we had over here on May, she lived nine hours and she died. So after, you know, we made another girl, had another daughter, so we keep staying, and we don't think about going back no more. I don't want to go back there no more.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. How many children do you have?

MATILDA:

Two.

LEVINE:

Two. And what are their names?

MANUEL:

Well, the first, the boy, you know, is John Costa, and the girl was Rosemary Paiva. ( a telephone rings )

MATILDA:

Answer now. ( break in tape )

LEVINE:

We're resuming now after a phone call. Let's see. So you had a son who was three-and-a-half when you came over.

MANUEL:

Right.

LEVINE:

And you were pregnant when you came over.

MANUEL:

Right.

LEVINE:

And then you had another daughter.

MANUEL:

Right.

LEVINE:

And your son is in California now.

MANUEL:

Right.

LEVINE:

Did you tell me your son's name?

MANUEL:

John Costa.

LEVINE:

And your daughter?

MANUEL:

Rosemary Costa.

LEVINE:

And do you have grandchildren?

MANUEL:

Yeah, we got four. My boy has one, his name is Scott Michael Costa, and my daughter has a boy who's going to be fourteen.

MATILDA:

Thirteen-and-a-half.

MANUEL:

Joe Mapheus Lynch. And he had twins, he was nine years old. One of them was Patrick Lynch, and the other one is Timothy Lynch.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Okay. Well, let's see. So you decided you'd come over and you'd make some money, and go back.

MANUEL:

Right.

LEVINE:

And you came over, and what did you do when you came?

MANUEL:

Oh, I was working on the rubber company. I worked on the press making heels, rubber heels, you know, for shoes.

LEVINE:

Well, I guess I jumped ahead. When you, what was the voyage like, and what ship did you come on?

MANUEL:

( he sighs ) I think the ship, you know, they had two ships in that time, Marine Corp and Marine Sharp. I think those ships, you know, they were on the war. But before that they had something, Titanic right there.

LEVINE:

Titanic?

MANUEL:

Yeah. Two Italian ships, Buconic, something like that, you know. But when I came I came on a, I think it was Marine Sharp ship.

LEVINE:

Marine Sharp. Is that, can you spell that? Marine Sharp.

MANUEL:

I don't know how to spell it either, you know. ( Off mike comment ) That's an American ship, you know. Before they used to have Italian.

LEVINE:

What port did you leave from?

MANUEL:

What port? You know, from St. Michael.

LEVINE:

St. Michael was a port where . . .

MANUEL:

Yeah. They had the gulf there, yeah, the ship, yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. I see. So . . . ( Off mike comment )

MANUEL:

Sharp, I think it's Sharp. R-P, something like that.

LEVINE:

So do you remember what the fare was?

MANUEL:

Oh, no, no. Not really. But, you know, I think I had an idea, I don't know if it's twenty, twenty-nine thousands scuds. Scuds, in those days, you know, I think the scuds in those days, you know, was twenty-four. A dollar is twenty-four scuds. So that means twenty-nine thousand.

VOICE OFF MIKE:

Twenty-nine thousand.

MANUEL:

Or twenty-four scuds, twenty-four dollars, something like that. I don't know how much that is. I think it's a thousand some-odd dollars, something like that. I don't know.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And what was the voyage like for you?

MANUEL:

Six days. She, we were in separate rooms, you know. She came on one, with the ladies. She was pregnant, with the way I said, you know. And I was in the other room. My boy stayed in her room, and I was in the other room with the men. And it was six days.

LEVINE:

And were you down in the hold of the ship?

MANUEL:

No, on the second.

LEVINE:

Were you in a cabin or in a big dormitory?

MANUEL:

Well, what do you mean a cabin? The rooms, you know, was small. The rooms that they had, this room here, what, six people? No, four beds, four bunk beds.

LEVINE:

Four bunk beds.

MATILDA:

Bunk beds.

MANUEL:

And my room is bunk beds, too.

LEVINE:

Is there anything about the voyage that you remember? Any experiences you have?

MANUEL:

I remember I run over the boat, you know, back and forth, you know, every day, me and my, you know. When I get up I used to get my kid, three-and-a-half years boy, three-and-a-half years old, and we used to run the boat. I used to go down to the kitchen. I can't eat the food there. The smells, you know, I didn't like those smells. I used to go over there and got bread. When I came over, I bought some linguista, chorizos, you know. Sausages. I kill a pig before I came, so I brought some of them, already cooked, so that's what we eat. I used to go over there and get bread, come back to his room, bring some coffee, sausages with the bread and coffee, the three of us.

MATILDA:

I was throwing it all up.

MANUEL:

Every time she got up, she throws up. ( Off mike comments ) That's why the kid, when they're born over here, it affected. I think it's because of that.

LEVINE:

Huh. Do you remember coming into the New York Harbor?

MANUEL:

Yes. That night, I came over here, I think I landed there on the New Year's Eve. That was about three o'clock in the afternoon. When I got there the guy, you know, turns to me, they went there for a trip. He was a fireman, I think, in New York City. Either one, you know, was in trip, you know, with the baggage and everything, you know. So when I get out of the house, the (?), I came by train to Providence. When I got to Providence, they used to have another train from Providence to Taunton. When I got there so late there was no more train. So I got a telephone call from the family over here in Taunton, so I called them, and so they went down there and got us, picked up. And I got over here in Taunton, it's two o'clock in the morning. They still had the lights for that Christmas.

MATILDA:

Christmas time.

MANUEL:

I didn't know nothing about these lights, and the music.

MATILDA:

( she laughs ) Christmas time.

LEVINE:

Do you remember the Statue of Liberty?

MANUEL:

Yes, very good, yes. When I get in, you know, yeah. It was Brooklyn on one side and New York on the other side. It was snow on the other side. In Brooklyn there was white. I never see snow. I see that white, and the people say, "That's snow, that's snow!"

LEVINE:

Do you remember Ellis Island, anything about your experience?

MANUEL:

No. I remember, no. Now, when I went there, you know I see it better, you know. When I get, when I came, you know, I don't know nothing about it.

MATILDA:

I see better this time when we go there.

LEVINE:

So you, nobody met you, then. You just got here.

MANUEL:

No, no, no.

LEVINE:

You went from Ellis Island right to Taunton.

MANUEL:

Yeah. I didn't know somebody, you know, helped me, you know, to get on the train to Providence, then from Providence to Taunton, yeah.

LEVINE:

And did you, could you speak any English?

MANUEL:

I'd say, you know, nothing. ( he laughs ) "Yes, yes" and "no." Sometimes no, yes is the wrong thing and no is, ( laughter ) you know, I know some, "table, chair," something like that, but make the conversation, oh, no.

LEVINE:

So when you got to Taunton you had contact with people that could speak.

MANUEL:

Oh, sure. ( gesturing to Mr. Fresta ) His father was living here, and his son was living here too, you know.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Uh-huh. So what were your first few days like? Do you remember anything that struck you as different, or anything that seemed strange?

MANUEL:

The first days I was always on top of the water, you know, always balanced like this, you know. I see over there, and the roads they got stone walls. Over here, you know, everything is open. That's the difference, you know, we see when we got here. All open over here.

LEVINE:

So . . .

MANUEL:

When I came on the train at night, you know, I see the cities, the lights in the cities and the towns, you know. Beautiful.

LEVINE:

The Christmas lights.

MANUEL:

I mean, at night, you know, they have lights, you know. Yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

So then what, where did you live when you first came here to Taunton?

MANUEL:

We went to his house . . .

MATILDA:

My father's house.

MANUEL:

Yeah, yeah. For a month, I was there for a month until I got a job.

LEVINE:

And what was your father doing here? What did he do for a living?

MANUEL:

He was a fireman.

MATILDA:

A fireman.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Did he become a citizen, your father?

MANUEL:

Yeah, he was a citizen. Yeah. I think he became a citizen, yeah.

MATILDA:

I don't know.

MANUEL:

Yeah, before he retired. Yes, he did.

LEVINE:

So, uh, so did you suffer any disappointments when you came here, when you came thinking you were going to come, make some money, go back. Was there anything . . .

MANUEL:

Another thing is, see, I left my mother there. My mother has no daughters, no boys, and she's a widow. I left her over there, so I thought about her, you know. So I have to call, you know, over here, and back there. So, she's an American citizen, so two years after I took American papers, so I called my mother. When I called my mother, I used to live in Joe Fresta's house.

LEVINE:

So did your mother come, then?

MANUEL:

Yeah. She came, two years after.

LEVINE:

Well, when you decided to call your mother, did that mean that you decided you were going to stay?

MANUEL:

Yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

Do you know what decided you, what made the decision?

MANUEL:

Well, I decided because over here we lived better than you lived over there, so. I didn't live too bad over there. I had a house and piece of land, you know. But, you know, we can't save money over there, you know Live day by day.

MATILDA:

It's better over here. Much better over here.

LEVINE:

And what about your mother? Was she happy to come here?

MANUEL:

At first, yeah. She wants to work. I said no. She has to stay home and help with the kids, so that's what she did. She never worked here. Once she came she was sixty-two, I think. She was sixty-two years old.

LEVINE:

And she came through Ellis Island as well?

MANUEL:

No, she came by plane.

LEVINE:

Oh, uh-huh. So, let's see. Did you stay, then, working in the factory with the heels?

MANUEL:

For twenty-seven years.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And that's in Taunton?

MANUEL:

No, that's in Stoughton. Until the factory moves, moved up, so.

LEVINE:

Were you retired by then, or no?

MANUEL:

No. When the factory, you know, I was still fifty-seven. So I worked over here in Taunton and two other places until I was sixty-two. So I retired at sixty-two years old.

LEVINE:

And then you became a citizen?

MANUEL:

I became a citizen two years after I came to this country.

LEVINE:

Did you go to night school?

MANUEL:

Yeah, I went to night school. Just to learn, you know, things the best, the papers, you know.

LEVINE:

What was it like learning English? What was it like not knowing any English early on?

MANUEL:

You know, I used to read the paper and the books, you know, just like nothing, but I don't understand what I was reading. The teacher used to tell me, you know, "You know." So I said, "Yeah, I read, but I don't know what I read. I know what I'm reading. You want to put me in another class?" You know. So I just learned just the best, you know, to get the immigrant papers.

LEVINE:

And did you ever run into people who treated you badly because you had come from a foreign country?

MANUEL:

No, no.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Well, what would you say you're proudest of that you've done in your life? ( to Mrs. Costa ) You can answer, too.

MATILDA:

Uh, no. He's the one he's going to say. ( laughter )

LEVINE:

Are you proud of anything that you've done since you came? If you had it to do over again would you do it differently?

MANUEL:

Probably, yeah.

LEVINE:

What would you do different?

MANUEL:

I think, you know, if you had to do different, you know. I think I'd try to get some school, because I was twenty-two years old, probably could have gone there and got a better job.

LEVINE:

Well, I think at that time maybe people didn't think.

MANUEL:

That's how, when you came from the old country, you know, the odd teen years you don't want to learn the language, understand. First you understand some people, you know. Some people you don't. And that, you know, how to speak and all that stuff.

LEVINE:

Did it take you a long time?

MANUEL:

It took me a long time because of the place I work, you know, my foreman is a Portuguese, and the people there is almost all Portuguese, so you never speak English. I came home and I speak Portuguese. I raised my kids, you know. Still, my daughter is born over here, but she speaks Portuguese.

LEVINE:

You used Portuguese in the home. ( Off mike comment )

MANUEL:

My boy and my girl sometimes used to speak English to me, and I don't understand it. I used to say, "No, no. Speak in Portuguese." So I made them speak Portuguese, so they speak Portuguese.

LEVINE:

Are there any ways that either of you have that you've tried to keep up that are Portuguese? You know, things that you, ways you live or things you do . . .

MANUEL:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

LEVINE:

From the old country. What kinds of things did you try to keep? Can you think of anything?

MANUEL:

( he sighs ) Discipline is the first thing, you know. The way I see kids over here, we raise different in the old country.

LEVINE:

How were you raised? What does your, what's the difference?

MANUEL:

Well, it's a little bit tough, you know. Be honest, and, well . . .

MATILDA:

Behave.

MANUEL:

When I raised my kids, you know, it's different. I changed, you know. I didn't get that tough, you know. I changed for better. But still I didn't let them do, you know, everything I wanted.

LEVINE:

Were there certain things that you tried to teach the children, certain things that you wanted them to respect . . .

MANUEL:

Well, I wanted them to get through school. And be honest. When they grew up, you know, they had to work just like us. So that's what they did. My boy, you know, when he finished high school, I don't think he's still out of here. He joined the Air Force, volunteer. He wants to go, so that's the first time, you know, they separate from us, you know, for four years.

LEVINE:

Was that hard on you?

MANUEL:

That was hard on us, yeah.

MATILDA:

Very hard.

LEVINE:

So did he see active service in the Air Force?

MANUEL:

Yeah, no, well, she wants to, she volunteered, she wants to take a career out of that, you know. But after four years, and he decided don't want to go no more, so.

LEVINE:

Let's see. Well, is there anything else that you would say. Did you try to teach your children any things in particular, things that you wanted them to learn or to know, ways to live?

MATILDA:

I teach them the way I teach, you know. Supposed to be, you know.

LEVINE:

What kinds of things did you want them to know? Can you think of anything?

MATILDA:

Behave, and be nice to everybody, you know. Don't be so fresh with everybody, and so . . .

LEVINE:

So are you proud of being Portuguese?

MANUEL:

I am.

MATILDA:

We are.

MANUEL:

I'm American citizen, but I'm still Portuguese. I am still Portuguese.

LEVINE:

Well, is there anything, when you look back over your life, is there anything that, else you would like to say about, you know, starting out in Portugal or, you know, going to Portugal and coming here and living your life here. Is there anything you'd pass along for the future?

MANUEL:

Well, to tell the truth, you know, if you get a dollar, you go over there in the old country, you live like a king. But you didn't get the things you get over here. Certain things there, you know. You miss it, you know. You didn't get everything you want.

LEVINE:

So even if you had the dollar you couldn't get . . .

MANUEL:

The climate was good, and, but, you know, now if you got a dollar you can get a car, you can get a house. But if you went to the store, you know, you can get, a lot of things you can get over there.

LEVINE:

So you, so even though you had the dollar, there's a lot of things you can't get there.

MANUEL:

Right, right. Yeah.

LEVINE:

And would you, are you glad you stayed here now, or . . .

MANUEL:

Yes, I am.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, is there anything else you'd like to say about being in America?

MATILDA:

I like very much this country, yeah. I like it over there, but I like this country better. END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

LEVINE:

Is there anything else that you would like to say before we close?

MANUEL:

I like this country, you know. I went to Texas. My boy was living in Texas first. They moved to California. I went to California twice, you know. A lot of things to see over here. I went to Portugal twice, so.

MATILDA:

I went last year to festival of Santo Christo last year. : The Holy Ghost.

MATILDA:

Holy Ghost.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, I thank you very much for talking with me, and now your tape will be in the collection at the Ellis Island Immigration Museum so people can hear it.

MANUEL:

We went there, from New York. The way I see, when I get there, you know, things get in my memory, you know.

LEVINE:

Oh, it jogged your memory.

MANUEL:

Yeah. In the big room there, when he had to dispatch, you know, when you got allowed and everything, you know. The Statue of Liberty, you know.

LEVINE:

What was it like for you to see it at the end, after . . .

MANUEL:

Oh, good, beautiful, you know.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Okay, well, thank you very much. This is Janet Levine, and I've been talking with Matilda and Manuel Costa in their home in Taunton, Massachusetts on September 20, 1992, and they came from Portugal on January 1, 1949.