SIGRIST:

Good morning. This is Paul Sigrist for the National Park Service. We are here on Wednesday, February 20th with Flora Greenwald, who came from Poland in 1922 when she was four-and-a-half. Good morning.

GREENWALD:

Good morning.

SIGRIST:

Mrs. Greenwald, could you please state your full name with your maiden name and your date of birth.

GREENWALD:

Well, my full name is Flora Greenwald, and I was born Frymeta Glubachuwa.

SIGRIST:

Could you spell that for me, please? (They laugh)

GREENWALD:

I really don't remember how to spell it. It's on my passport and form.

SIGRIST:

Okay. We'll look on the form. And what was your birthday?

GREENWALD:

My birthday is May 27, 1918.

SIGRIST:

And where in Poland were you born?

GREENWALD:

In Warsaw. That's the capital.

SIGRIST:

Is this where you lived as a child?

GREENWALD:

Yes. That's where I lived and that's where I was raised until the time we left for the United States.

SIGRIST:

I see. Let's talk a little bit about your parents. What was your father's name?

GREENWALD:

My father's name was Chaim, which they translated to Hyman when they came here. They also changed our last name to Glowitz, G-L-O-W-I-T-Z, which is a far cry from the Glubachuva, but close.

SIGRIST:

And what did he do for a living?

GREENWALD:

My father was in the meat business.

SIGRIST:

Doing butchering or packing or . . .

GREENWALD:

Butchering and generally in the wholesale end of it in Poland. And then when he came to the United States he went into the retailing of the meat.

SIGRIST:

Did he, had he done that all his life?

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

He'd always been in the meat business?

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

And what was your mother's name?

GREENWALD:

My mother's name was Chaja, which was translated to Clara. Both Chaja and Chajam mean the same thing in Hebrew. It means live. And her maiden name was Horowitz. She was the youngest of six girls.

SIGRIST:

Oh, that's interesting. Was she from Warsaw?

GREENWALD:

No. She was born in Lithuania and after her father died, her mother had died much earlier, she came to live with a sister in Poland, and that's where my father met my mother.

SIGRIST:

So she was fairly young when she went to Poland?

GREENWALD:

I imagine she was either sixteen or eighteen or thereabouts.

SIGRIST:

I see. Do you remember when your parents were married?

GREENWALD:

No.

SIGRIST:

Well, let's talk a little bit about where they lived exactly. Or if you remember this or remember them talking about . . .

GREENWALD:

No, I remember. We lived in the city in a large complex of buildings. We had an apartment there, and you had to go through a gate to get inside, and then there were different courtyards, and each courtyard had another group of buildings in them. It was quite modern for a big city in those years because we did have our own bathroom and kitchen and it was a lovely apartment as I remember it. When my father left for America we rented one of the rooms to a couple who one was, the man was a doctor and his wife was the principal of the school. And the reason I remember this was because of the principal I was allowed to go to the private school that she was principal of, and that was quite an eye-opener because their bathrooms were tiled and it wasn't . . .

SIGRIST:

At the school.

GREENWALD:

At the school, and it was much more modern than what we had in our own apartment.

SIGRIST:

So you had multiple chambers in this apartment, and there were lots of little rooms, or . . .

GREENWALD:

Well, there were several rooms. I don't remember exactly how many.

SIGRIST:

Were you on a higher floor?

GREENWALD:

We were on a higher floor.

SIGRIST:

I see. Well, that must have been a great opportunity for a little girl because that's quite young to go to school.

GREENWALD:

Yes, it was.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember anything of that experience other than the bathrooms? Do you remember the . . .

GREENWALD:

Well, I remember that it gave me an opportunity to be with other children, but other than that this is what impressed me most.

SIGRIST:

In the apartment, did you have a modern kitchen, a stove and everything?

GREENWALD:

More or less, yes. Not by today's standards, but for those years, yes.

SIGRIST:

Did mother do all the cooking?

GREENWALD:

Mother did all the cooking. She did, however, have a young woman who came to take care of us, my brother and me, so her life was not drudgery by any means.

SIGRIST:

Was the woman Polish also?

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember her name?

GREENWALD:

No.

SIGRIST:

The, just talking about the apartment a little bit more, did you as a child have your own bedroom?

GREENWALD:

No, I shared it.

SIGRIST:

With your brother?

GREENWALD:

Uh-huh.

SIGRIST:

And you were how old when your brother was born?

GREENWALD:

I was two.

SIGRIST:

I see. Did your mother ever work?

GREENWALD:

Not that I know of.

SIGRIST:

You said that your father went to America first.

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

What year did he go?

GREENWALD:

1920.

SIGRIST:

And what did he do when he got here?

GREENWALD:

He went into, as a worker in a butcher shop.

SIGRIST:

And how long was he here for?

GREENWALD:

He was here for two years before we came.

SIGRIST:

I see. Did he go back, or did he send for you?

GREENWALD:

No. He sent for us.

SIGRIST:

Did, I wanted to ask you the question about religious life. Were your parents religious? Was that a big part of your life as a child?

GREENWALD:

Well, it was a part of our lives as far as holidays. I wouldn't remember too much about the religion, except that we did have a small synagogue on a lower floor in the building.

SIGRIST:

Right in the building.

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

So there was a large Jewish population in this building?

GREENWALD:

Uh-huh.

SIGRIST:

In this section of Warsaw or just in the building in general?

GREENWALD:

Well, I think it must have been the area we lived in.

SIGRIST:

I see. Do you remember celebrating holidays? Do you remember what . . .

GREENWALD:

Yes. Well, we celebrated with family when holidays came around.

SIGRIST:

Whose family?

GREENWALD:

Well, basically my mother's sister and her husband, who had no children. We used to celebrate what we call the Feast of Tabernacles and succoth and, uh, these are Jewish holidays, which are festival holidays, and these are the things I remember because they were happy things. As far as my father's family, I don't remember them too well. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

And you said that you had no grandparents.

GREENWALD:

No.

SIGRIST:

On either side.

GREENWALD:

No.

SIGRIST:

Well, that's right. Your mother's certainly had died.

GREENWALD:

No. And my dad's parents too. I have no memory of them.

SIGRIST:

The, did you have a playmate, a friend that you remember as a small child?

GREENWALD:

Not specifically.

SIGRIST:

Not specifically. Were there other kids in the building?

GREENWALD:

Oh, I'm sure there were, but I don't remember specifically.

SIGRIST:

Well, let's talk about, your father obviously did well for himself when he came here. He liked it here in America.

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Where did he live?

GREENWALD:

Well, he lived with my mother's sister who was here with her husband and family for a while, and then he also lived with a cousin of his.

SIGRIST:

Was this in New York?

GREENWALD:

In New York.

SIGRIST:

I see. So your mother's sister had come over, too. This must have been an older sister, or . . .

GREENWALD:

Much before.

SIGRIST:

And did the mother's sister marry over here, or was she married . . .

GREENWALD:

No, she was married when she arrived. Right.

SIGRIST:

So how did your father go about getting your mother to come over?

GREENWALD:

Well, he apparently must have sent money for it.

SIGRIST:

This was all pre-arranged?

GREENWALD:

Apparently. I really don't know, you know, to any exact degree. I do remember leaving my home in Poland and being taken to a train and my mother's sister and her husband were with us, and we embarked from that station and then went to an area where we got on a boat.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember what you took with you? Do you happen to remember, did you take maybe a special toy or something that you wouldn't have had here?

GREENWALD:

No, nothing like that. I know my mother had a thermos bottle, and she had taken a large salami, which she disposed of because it turned green. (They laugh) And the thermos bottle unfortunately broke before we left the station.

SIGRIST:

But she was prepared to take food with her.

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

So where did you go? Where did you get the boat?

GREENWALD:

I think it was Le Havre because it was the French line, and my mother was sick all the way across.

SIGRIST:

How did you get to Le Have?

GREENWALD:

By train.

SIGRIST:

By train. That must have been a long train ride, actually.

GREENWALD:

That's as much as I remember.

SIGRIST:

What was the name of the boat?

GREENWALD:

The Rochambeau.

SIGRIST:

And how did you travel? Third class? Second class?

GREENWALD:

Well, we had a little room with bunks.

SIGRIST:

And were there lots of people in there with you?

GREENWALD:

No, that was just for the three, our own little room.

SIGRIST:

Your own little cabin.

GREENWALD:

Right. And I had to take care of my brother on board because there were other children and he was always in mischief.

SIGRIST:

And you said your mother was sick.

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Was it a rough crossing?

GREENWALD:

Apparently for her.

SIGRIST:

She didn't take to it well.

GREENWALD:

No. She always had a problem with motion.

SIGRIST:

I see. Was your brother a handful?

GREENWALD:

He was.

SIGRIST:

The terrible twos. (They laugh) Although actually he would have been, no, he would have been two when you left. Right. Do you remember anything about the boat, coming over? Do you remember playing on the boat, or . . .

GREENWALD:

Well, this is what I'm saying. I took care of him.

SIGRIST:

That's what you basically had to do.

GREENWALD:

Yes. And there was one purser on the boat who took charge of us, because my mother couldn't take care of us, so he made sure we had meals, but I don't remember anything else about it.

SIGRIST:

Well, then, if your mother was this sick she must have been happy to see New York.

GREENWALD:

I imagine so. But . . . (she laughs)

SIGRIST:

Do you remember the Statue of Liberty at all? Did you . . .

GREENWALD:

No. I just remember one thing. Before we were ushered into that big room with all the benches.

SIGRIST:

Here at Ellis Island.

GREENWALD:

At Ellis Island. We were at a gate, and we could see people on the other side, and people were saying hello to different people they knew. And then I did see my father very, very quickly. And then we were taken . . .

SIGRIST:

Did you remember what your father looked like?

GREENWALD:

Uh, actually yes, more so than I realized. But after being here for whatever period of time, I didn't recognize him when he came to pick me up at the HIAS.

SIGRIST:

All right. So you said that you remembered seeing people picking up other people, meeting other people. Then what happened? How did you end up having to stay here?

GREENWALD:

Well, from what my parents mentioned we were over the quota because we came at the end of '22, and so we had to stay over at least until the new year in order to qualify to come in.

SIGRIST:

Did you come late in the year?

GREENWALD:

I think it was in December.

SIGRIST:

So all three of you had to stay.

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

How did that go over with your mother?

GREENWALD:

Well, she had to do it. There was no way out. It was just a matter of being patient. But then they thought that I was coming down with a childhood disease and they let my brother and my mother leave and I was kept here. I was put into a little wagon, like a hand pushcart, and pushed across a sort of bridge, a narrow bridge with windows on each side, and taken to the hospital there. Plunked down (she laughs) on a bed and a nurse and a doctor, which of course I realized now, started to take care of me by taking my temperature and all the other vital signs. And the only time I saw my mother after that was when she came to visit and she had to wear a cloak with a hood in order to be allowed in. And my brother, of course, was taken care of by her sister while she came to visit.

SIGRIST:

Were you frightened by all of this?

GREENWALD:

I was very frightened, and I was very, very upset not to be with my mother. And I used to look out of the window in the hospital, which was like a ward, and they had windows all the way down practically to the floor and I saw the lawns and I used to think to myself, "How can I escape?" (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

Were they nice to you?

GREENWALD:

The ones who were nice, and the one who I remember, because it was also something unusual was a young woman who might have been a volunteer, as I realize now, who used to come around and see all the children and give them little tiny pieces of candy and speak to them in their language and also soothe them and comfort them. This is the memory that I have.

SIGRIST:

Was the ward full? Were there lots of people in your situation?

GREENWALD:

I have no great memory of how many were there.

SIGRIST:

You said your mother would come and visit you. Did they allow her to bring you food, or did she bring you anything?

GREENWALD:

No, no.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember at all the sort of things, like what they would feed you? Do you remember eating at all when you were there?

GREENWALD:

No.

SIGRIST:

Just those wonderful windows.

GREENWALD:

The windows to freedom. (They laugh)

SIGRIST:

Well, it must have been a very frightening experience. I assume that, did you ever know what they thought that you had?

GREENWALD:

No, I never did. But I really wasn't sick.

SIGRIST:

Right.

GREENWALD:

Ultimately they released me, but instead of allowing my parent to come and pick me up, they sent me to the HIAS, which is the Hebrew Aid Society, with another old couple who spoke my language, and they put me into a, with them, into a very small boat, like a tugboat, I imagine, and they took me across to the mainland, and there we took a car or cab, I imagine. And I went to the HIAS. These people were picked up by whoever was picking them up. And I sat on one of these benches there, which had the sides like the pews in the church, and no one could see me, I was so small. So my father, who was looking for me to pick me up, didn't see me, and I didn't see him. And then finally when everybody was gone he kept looking, he found me. And he couldn't take me to my mother at that time either because my brother was ill (she laughs) with something communicable. And so they took me to a friend who came from the same country, the same town. And there I stayed until it was time for me to go to my mother.

SIGRIST:

It was a long time until the family all got back together. (They laugh) Just getting back to the HIAS, for a second. So the HIAS had their own office here as well as . . .

GREENWALD:

I n Manhattan, not here.

SIGRIST:

Oh, I thought that . . .

GREENWALD:

We went by boat to the mainland and then by cab to the HIAS building.

SIGRIST:

I see. You may not remember, but did they explain to you what was happening. Obviously your mother didn't go with you during this.

GREENWALD:

No. Just that I was going to see my mother. And so of course I was anxious to do that. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

Yes, indeed. She was probably anxious to see you, too. And you're not quite sure how long you were here for, but it was extended.

GREENWALD:

It was an extended period of time, because in the Great Hall there they every day would have a cart that came in with milk and soda biscuits, almost like the Uneeda Biscuits, and that's what they gave us sort of as an afternoon snack.

SIGRIST:

So you were allowed out of the ward then?

GREENWALD:

No, that was before they took me away. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

Oh, before. And once you got to the ward you were not allowed.

GREENWALD:

No. Then I had no other communication until they sent me with this couple.

SIGRIST:

I see. Well, let's get the family all back together. (They laugh)

GREENWALD:

Well, finally they, my father came to pick me up. And when I came to my aunt's house they realized that I had temperature, and then I got sick. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

What was your brother sick with?

GREENWALD:

I really don't know. It was a communicable, something. A childhood disease. But I guess my father came to visit me at these friends and he either brought it to me or I incubated later and finally came down with something you could call by a name.

SIGRIST:

The friends that you stayed with, where in Manhattan were they? Do you remember?

GREENWALD:

They were downtown, the east side.

SIGRIST:

Was this near where your parents were living?

GREENWALD:

No. My mother was in Brooklyn.

SIGRIST:

Oh. So she was quite a distance away. Had your father gotten an apartment for you?

GREENWALD:

Yes. Ultimately we moved into the apartment in, on 113th Street near Park Avenue.

SIGRIST:

I see.

GREENWALD:

When everybody was well again. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

But when they found out that you were sick, once you had rejoined your father, you were in Brooklyn at this point. Do you, how long did you stay in Brooklyn? Do you remember?

GREENWALD:

I have no idea how much time went by. By then time didn't mean anything any more. (They laugh)

SIGRIST:

Well, your mother and father must have been happy when they were all, back together.

GREENWALD:

Back together, yes.

SIGRIST:

Did your father, he was living in Brooklyn in the apartment with your mother.

GREENWALD:

No, he was still living in the Manhattan area, around that area, because he worked there.

SIGRIST:

That's where he worked. So he would come out and see you?

GREENWALD:

He would come out and see us, yes. And then when everything was okay, we were both well, my brother and I, then he took us home to the apartment that he had for us.

SIGRIST:

And that was 113th Street.

GREENWALD:

That's right.

SIGRIST:

All right. Well, let's sort of pick up the story there, then. Describe that apartment to me. Do you remember the number?

GREENWALD:

Well, no I don't remember. If you had asked me a few years ago I might have remembered. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

On the car ride home you might remember. Can you describe the apartment at all?

GREENWALD:

Yes. There were bathrooms in the hall and it was like a railroad apartment with a window in one room and a window in the back room and sort of cut out piece of window like this thing here (she gestures to the recording studio window) in between the front room and the kitchen. We had a wood stove and it certainly wasn't as luxurious as what we had come from.

SIGRIST:

When you were in Poland in the apartment, did you have electricity?

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Did you have electricity in New York?

GREENWALD:

I imagine so. I don't know. I don't remember. Maybe not, because it was a wood stove and I think I remember, maybe yes. I'm trying to think back. Because you had to put, you had to put coins in a meter to activate some sort of . . .

SIGRIST:

Was it gas, maybe?

GREENWALD:

I think, yeah. That I remember. My goodness, you're bringing back memories to me that I never would have thought I remembered. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

The apartment was three rooms, then? A front room, a kitchen and a back room?

GREENWALD:

I think it was three, four, three or four rooms. I'm not sure exactly.

SIGRIST:

Did you and your brother share a room and your parents share a room?

GREENWALD:

Yes. Uh-huh.

SIGRIST:

Did you have separate beds?

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Did you sleep with your brother?

GREENWALD:

No, we had separate beds.

SIGRIST:

And was this an upper floor?

GREENWALD:

It was the first floor.

SIGRIST:

It was the very first floor.

GREENWALD:

Yes, right above the stores that were underneath.

SIGRIST:

Do you remember what store was underneath you?

GREENWALD:

I think it was a dairy.

SIGRIST:

I see. Can you kind of describe the neighborhood to me? Was it a Jewish neighborhood?

GREENWALD:

Yes. It was basically Jewish, but we had Polish people living in the building whom I could converse with, and there was the elevated structure of Park Avenue with the train going by, and it was more congested than I remembered what I had had in Poland.

SIGRIST:

Yes. Not nearly as comfortable, it sounds.

GREENWALD:

No, not at all. And then my father bought the shop where he was employed, and my mother . . .

SIGRIST:

This is in lower Manhattan.

GREENWALD:

No. On 113th Street. The friends were in lower Manhattan. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

h, I'm getting my geography all mixed up.

GREENWALD:

And my mother went into the store without any experience and helped to run the store, learned how to cut the meat and all that sort of thing.

SIGRIST:

Was it strictly a butcher shop?

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Was it a kosher?

GREENWALD:

A kosher butcher shop.

SIGRIST:

I see. Did you ever help out at all?

GREENWALD:

Oh, when I was older if they had to go up into the apartment, because we moved from across the street to the building that the store was in, and, uh . . .

SIGRIST:

Which was right across the street.

GREENWALD:

Yes. And that was a much better apartment because we had a bathroom in the apartment and we had much more room.

SIGRIST:

What was the, how long did you stay in the first apartment?

GREENWALD:

I imagine we were there maybe a year or a year-and-a-half, two at most.

SIGRIST:

A good chunk of time. Now, um, your mother had a sister here, and were there any other relatives on either side?

GREENWALD:

Just my father's cousins.

SIGRIST:

And they were in Manhattan also?

GREENWALD:

Um, I don't recall whether they were in Manhattan or in Brooklyn because we didn't see them that often.

SIGRIST:

I see. So it was really your mother's sister, in terms of relatives that you saw.

GREENWALD:

Right.

SIGRIST:

I guess I'm asking you, how close was the family? Did you see your mother's sister a lot?

GREENWALD:

Yes. We saw that family a lot because we shared holidays and . . .

SIGRIST:

They had no children.

GREENWALD:

They had, yes, they had. The cousins, some of them didn't have children. But they had four children, and it was nice having these cousins. That's how I ended up with the name Flora because one of my cousin's names was Flora and she was named for the same person that I had been named for, which was a relative by the name of Frimma. I imagine she must have been a grandmother. And so because her name was Flora they anglicized my Frymeta, which was my Polish name, to Flora. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

Let's talk a little bit about how you learned English. Polish was spoken in the house.

GREENWALD:

Polish, yes, and then Yiddish. And there were these Polish children in the building, in the first building that we lived in. And through associating with the children I learned a little of the language. And then, of course, when I was old enough I went to school.

SIGRIST:

Did you start off in the first grade in New York?

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

And what was school like for you?

GREENWALD:

Very difficult, because as much as I learned a little of the language, it didn't come easy because at home no one really spoke the language.

SIGRIST:

Yes, and Polish and English are very different. Was, you said it was very difficult, but do you have good memories of school, do you have bad memories of school?

GREENWALD:

No, I have good memories of school because I was interested in learning and apparently did.

SIGRIST:

Did you pick up also English from your friends or from . . .

GREENWALD:

From all the associates in my life, I think.

SIGRIST:

Did your mother's sister speak English?

GREENWALD:

Also very haltingly and it was my cousin who spoke English more.

SIGRIST:

Your mother and father spoke Polish in the home, and Yiddish, but did they have to speak English in the workplace?

GREENWALD:

Not necessarily. My father had learned a few words. My mother learned subsequently. In fact, my mother went to school to learn English.

SIGRIST:

Did she? Night classes?

GREENWALD:

Night classes.

SIGRIST:

That's interesting. Was that a popular thing to do in the neighborhood, or?

GREENWALD:

No, that was later. After we moved from that area we moved to another home in the Bronx.

SIGRIST:

But she had a real desire to learn.

GREENWALD:

She had a desire to learn.

SIGRIST:

Did she like America?

GREENWALD:

A t first it was not easy for her either. She came here with a Persian lamb coat, which was unheard of for so-called people from the old country.

SIGRIST:

This is something she had brought with her.

GREENWALD:

That's right. And she was accustomed to better than what she had to contend with when she came here.

SIGRIST:

Did she, how shall I say, at first was she rather contemptuous of the fact that she had come to America? Did she want to go back?

GREENWALD:

No, no, no. She wasn't contemptuous, she just made up her mind that she was going to do it, and she did. She was a very strong woman.

SIGRIST:

Hard-working? Your parents?

GREENWALD:

Yes. In fact, one of the things she also went to night school for was gym.

SIGRIST:

Really. That was progressive.

GREENWALD:

In those days she was quite progressive.

SIGRIST:

Describe your mother physically. What did she look like? I know you showed me a picture. Was she a tall woman, or . . .

GREENWALD:

She was about five, five two. But she looked taller because of the way she held herself. And apparently she had a will and a mind of her own.

SIGRIST:

Did she, for instance did she sew, did she make her clothes?

GREENWALD:

She could sew some, but she wasn't a dressmaker by any means. In fact, after a while when things were going well for my father, she had her clothes made because she was accustomed to nice things.

SIGRIST:

The first couple of years after your father bought the store, was it a struggle?

GREENWALD:

Well, until he built up his business, yes. Because he also had to pay off his debt, because he couldn't buy it outright. So it wasn't easy for them.

SIGRIST:

And your brother's a little older at this point, too. Is he still basically your charge?

GREENWALD:

Always. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

Always. What was your brother's name?

GREENWALD:

His name was Lou, Louis.

SIGRIST:

So he was a handful. When did he start school?

GREENWALD:

Well, when he went to kindergarten. But he was a terror because my parents were busy and I was in charge. And many times I had to go to school because the teacher wanted to see someone from home. But he turned out fine.

SIGRIST:

So there was a kindergarten in that neighborhood?

GREENWALD:

Oh, yes. It was part of the public school.

SIGRIST:

I see. Let's talk a little bit then about your first job. What was that?

GREENWALD:

Well, one day I had a falling out with my mother and I said, "I'm going out to get a job." And I went to a place that had an ad in a window to clean hat bands on men's hats (she laughs) by pressing on a pedal and putting the hat across the steam in order to clean that. And when my parents found out they wouldn't allow me to go back. And, of course, the man was very sorry not to have me. That was my first job. It lasted maybe for a day. (They laugh)

SIGRIST:

Was the . . . (tape ends) END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

SIGRIST:

So you worked one day. Was the altercation with your mother over getting a job?

GREENWALD:

No, no. It's something entirely different.

SIGRIST:

How old were you?

GREENWALD:

I imagine I must have been about sixteen.

SIGRIST:

So what was your next job, then?

GREENWALD:

Well, my next job actually because we were, during the Depression, and I was attending Hunter College I did some work in the college which was government subsidized for a few hours taking care of, either mending books in the library or taking the classes of the public school that was in the Hunter College building at the time. That was my other job until I finally got a job as a secretary and continued night school at Hunter for a while, and then found it was too much for me.

SIGRIST:

Did you go to Hunter right after you graduated from high school?

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

And your parents supported your decision to go to college? Or did they push you, or actually did you want to go to college?

GREENWALD:

No, I wanted to go and they supported the idea, but it was hard times, so I had to do something.

SIGRIST:

And what line of study, what discipline, what were you studying at Hunter?

GREENWALD:

Well, at Hunter I was going in for languages.

SIGRIST:

I see. That's interesting. (Mrs. Greenwald laughs) Well, you didn't really speak Polish, did you? Or had you lost it?

GREENWALD:

No, I had lost the Polish, but I was speaking Yiddish. I went for Latin, French and German.

SIGRIST:

You always had an ear.

GREENWALD:

Whatever. And I thought I would use that as a secretary or as a correspondent, or something in that line. But ultimately I got this job as a secretary, and that's where I stayed. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

Let's talk about your parents' later life. They were both ultimately happy they came here.

GREENWALD:

Oh, yes. They were glad they were here, especially in the Thirties when everything was, you know, going downhill for any Jewish people left in Europe with the Holocaust.

SIGRIST:

Did they lose relatives or friends?

GREENWALD:

Yes, they did. They lost relatives. My father lost some sisters. My mother didn't have anyone really left by then, but my father did.

SIGRIST:

Did either of them ever go back to visit?

GREENWALD:

No.

SIGRIST:

Did you ever go back?

GREENWALD:

No.

SIGRIST:

No. Did your father continue the butcher business right up until he died?

GREENWALD:

No. He stayed in the butcher business, and then the butcher's organization needed some people to supervise the stores, and he became one of the supervisors and did that, going around to the various shops and making sure that they were keeping the kashruth, the Kosher meats as they should be.

SIGRIST:

I see. Did, and the other question I wanted to ask you was what became of your mother's sister and her husband?

GREENWALD:

Yeah, indeed. Well, my uncle died first and then they had tragedies in their lives. They lost this one daughter, Flora, and then they lost another daughter. And my aunt lived to a ripe old age, but she was very senile by then.

SIGRIST:

Kind of a tough . . .

GREENWALD:

It was rough on them, yes.

SIGRIST:

Did the two daughters die, were they in accidents, or natural causes?

GREENWALD:

No. One daughter died in childbirth, Flora, and the other daughter died of cancer.

SIGRIST:

When they were adults?

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

Well let's, in our remaining two minutes here, let's just sort of zip you though the rest of your life. (Mrs. Greenwald laughs) So we left you off as a secretary.

GREENWALD:

Yes.

SIGRIST:

And just kind of give us a nutshell version of what happened afterwards.

GREENWALD:

Well, I was a secretary for this organization. I met my husband and we were married.

SIGRIST:

What year were you married?

GREENWALD:

In 1939. We just this last December celebrated our fifty-first anniversary. (She laughs) And we have two sons. One is a professor in California. He teaches business administration, marketing, things like that. And the younger boy is near Rochester, and he's a physicist, and has worked for Eastman Kodak and now is involved in another form of physicists (she laughs).

SIGRIST:

Did, since you were married in '39, did you go to work during World War II, or let me say this, were you working after you were married?

GREENWALD:

Yes, after, yes, I was. I worked for a printer as a secretary there. And then my children were born and I wasn't working for a number of years. When they were grown I became a volunteer doing hospital work in two hospitals in our community in Kingston.

SIGRIST:

When did you move to Kingston?

GREENWALD:

We moved to Kingston in, it will be thirty years ago.

SIGRIST:

Did you meet your husband in Manhattan, in New York?

GREENWALD:

I met my husband in the organization, which he represented. He's an attorney. He was their attorney and I was the secretary and we . . . ( they laugh )

SIGRIST:

The rest is history.

GREENWALD:

We made beautiful music together, so here we are. And then when I had my children grown and out of the house and I was doing the volunteer work, I was asked by the radiology department if I would run the tumor clinic in the hospital as a secretary, which I did. And when that phased out they brought in an oncologist, and I worked for him as a medical secretary for ten years, and then retired.

SIGRIST:

Your life has spanned just a sort of fascinating spectrum of different . . .

GREENWALD:

Different things.

SIGRIST:

What a range of worlds (Mrs. Greenwald laughs) that you've been in.

GREENWALD:

I can't say it hasn't been interesting.

SIGRIST:

Well, are you glad you came to America?

GREENWALD:

I'm a survivor. You can tell. (She laughs)

SIGRIST:

Well, what a really interesting story.

GREENWALD:

Thank you.

SIGRIST:

I want to thank you for coming all the way out here.

GREENWALD:

I appreciate being asked.

SIGRIST:

It was our pleasure, believe me.

GREENWALD:

I don't know if we left anything out. I hope not.

SIGRIST:

Well, I want to thank you officially.

GREENWALD:

Thank you too, Paul.

SIGRIST:

This is Paul Sigrist signing off for the National Park Service.