LEVINE:

This is Janet Levine for the National Park Service, and I'm here today with Asta Hoglind who came from Denmark when she was seven years old in 1924. Today is April 17, 1993 and I am at Mrs. Hoglind's home in St. Petersburg, Florida.

HOGLIND:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, I'm very happy to be here, and I look forward to hearing what you can recall. I know you were only seven, but . . .

HOGLIND:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Whatever you can recall will be very welcome. Okay. Why don't we start with your birth date.

HOGLIND:

Okay.

LEVINE:

And the town you were born in.

HOGLIND:

Yeah. Well, I was born in Copenhagen and my birthday was September 8, 1916.

LEVINE:

And did you live in Copenhagen the whole time before you immigrated to the United States?

HOGLIND:

Yes, I did. We, I was only seven when we came to the United States, so . . .

LEVINE:

Your first seven years you were there.

HOGLIND:

My first seven years, right.

LEVINE:

And what do you remember about Copenhagen? I mean, when you think about it, what are the things that stand out in your mind?

HOGLIND:

Well, don't forget, my mother always talked Danish, and we had a lot of Danish friends. But we also, I'm drawing a blank. I had something I wanted to say. Could you stop it?

LEVINE:

Well, why don't, just, uh, we were saying about Copenhagen and what you remembered.

HOGLIND:

Right. Well, we lived in an apartment. I had two brothers, and my mother. That was just our whole family at that point. And we lived in a sort of business-like section. We lived on the fourth floor in an apartment building. And we played a lot downstairs in the yard. There was a big yard in the center. And we, it was a walkup, four flights. We were on the top. And . . .

LEVINE:

Can you describe the living quarters?

HOGLIND:

Well, it was very small, because it was a kitchen, like a dining room and a bedroom, that's all. I hate to have to tell you this, ( he laughs ) but the bedroom, my mother had very nice furniture. She had a wardrobe and a dresser, and then two beds that were put together, see, and the two boys slept in one and my mother and I in the other part, but we were all in one. And, because it was just a small apartment. And then in the living room she had a sofa and a nice set of table and chairs and buffet. She also had a sewing machine because she did work for a store. She would bring it up to the store. Now, she might get a consignment of shirts. And they would, they were cut, and she would sew them up and then they would have to be brought back to the store. Sometimes it was terry robes, anything like that, or ladies underwear, which they wore, in those days they wore sort of a soft cotton underwear, you know, pants and a top. And . . .

LEVINE:

What was your mother's name?

HOGLIND:

Her name was Anne Kristine but it's spelled K-I-R-S-T-I-N-E, and her name was Hansen.

LEVINE:

Her maiden name?

HOGLIND:

Her maiden name was Hansen, yes. Her parents I knew. They lived out in the country, outside of Copenhagen. They had a little home. There it is. ( she shows a photograph )

LEVINE:

Oh!

HOGLIND:

And, uh . . .

LEVINE:

Maybe you can describe that, your grandparents' home.

HOGLIND:

Yeah. That's, it has been updated because the last time, when I was in Denmark, which was a few years ago, it was owned by relatives. And, see, my grandfather was a shoemaker and he had his little shop in the back of the house. And that's how it looked. But, of course, now it doesn't have the chicken yard, you know. But my grandmother on the other side, she had her garden, her vegetable garden. There was a big hedge up sheltering from this row, see. And she had all the, she had some vines for fruits that she canned or so or whatever, and then she had a vegetable garden there.

LEVINE:

Can you describe the house for the tape?

HOGLIND:

Yeah. Well, the house is small. It had a thatched roof. And it was, when you walked in that door that you see by the two windows, you know, that was like a combined dining room and living quarters. You know, there was a big stove, or a tall stove, that heated that particular part of the house.

LEVINE:

Would that be like an enamel stove?

HOGLIND:

No, it was a coal stove. But it was a thin one that went up, you know. It was not a small one. And this particular window here was sort of a pantry, because she didn't have refrigerator or anything like that. There was, when you went in this door there was like a, it was square and there was a faucet or a pipe coming out of the floor where there was a faucet. It was where the water, you got water from, and then this little room, as I said, was the pantry. And in back of that pantry or the, well, in the entryway then there was a small kitchen, like, with no window in it or anything. There was a stove that she cooked on, my grandmother cooked on. And then over on the side was just a little table and two chairs. And then in back of that was another bedroom. My grandfather was a shoemaker, and he had his bench in there, and a bed and a big wardrobe and so on. It sounds very primitive, but this is the way they lived in those days, you know. And, I mean, they had their golden wedding in 1928 where we all converged. It was spectacular.

LEVINE:

In 1928.

HOGLIND:

Eight, yes.

LEVINE:

Wow. What, maybe you could describe that. What was it like?

HOGLIND:

Well, it was, the townspeople, just a little town here. See, that road runs right around, and on either side of the road, either house or a farmhouse. Because it was up, up from there was a very big farm and there was hedges along there and their little, the boy, the youngest boy. It was six girls and this little boy, and he used to come to this gate, and he'd like to talk to us, you know, when we were there. But what was I going to . . .

LEVINE:

Well, do you remember the name of this town?

HOGLIND:

Yeah. It's K-Y-N-D-E-R-L-O-S-E, but with the O has a line over it. Actually it was Kynderlose. Because I speak Danish and . . .

LEVINE:

So you were describing the festivity of . . .

HOGLIND:

Oh, the golden wedding, yes. My, grandfather, as I said, was a shoemaker, and he was very much a person that talked to people, like when he'd finish a pair of shoes he'd walk out, he'd stuff his pipe and he'd walk out to the farm, and then he'd sit and enjoy a beer with the farmer. And if I was there or my brothers, we would go along. It was, you know, it was just a nice atmosphere to come out there. And . . .

LEVINE:

And what were your grandparents' names?

HOGLIND:

Hansen.

LEVINE:

And their first names?

HOGLIND:

Uh, well, gee. My grandmother, what was her name? It escapes me now. Oh, Margaret, Magrada, as they say it in Danish. But my grandfather, he was a shoemaker, and they always called him scumiel, which is shoemaker. ( she laughs ) You know? And, so I don't remember that unless it comes to me, you know. I haven't brought this up in many a year.

LEVINE:

Yes, I understand. So the twenty, so the . . .

HOGLIND:

Golden wedding, yes. It was, there was around, around this road here there was a cuvman, as they call it, which is the grocer. And in back of his store there he had a big room where he held, they held parties, and this is where their golden wedding was. See, we had all come from America, my two brothers, my cousin and my mother and I, and we had come to go, but we went up, we went there in the summer time and we never came back till January. ( she laughs ) And I was out of school for that long, and the school raged. They didn't like that, you know. And so, but anyway, there were so many people, the townspeople from all around, because my grandfather was very much revered. He was a very pleasant person, enjoyed being with people, and they had it in this big hall in back of the store, out front there. And it was just wonderful. I mean, there were so many people there. As a matter of fact, I have a write-up of it myself. I can show it to you afterwards. And, well, there was music and dancing and dinner first and all that, you know. And then it kept on for a long time, and then my grandmother and grandfather, well, I think he stayed on but she got tired. She was a little thin person and, you know, up in years. So that was the end of that. But the next day people came, you know, and so on. They, as I said, my grandfather was a shoemaker and he did his work at home. And another man that supplied him with leather came from another town called Roskilde, and that was, oh, a few miles away. I can't remember what the mileage was. But he came also, and brought wine and flowers and things for them, you know. And so . . .

LEVINE:

How do you spell Roskilde?

HOGLIND:

Roskilde. R-O-S-K-I-L-D-E. Roskilde.

LEVINE:

And was there anything about the festivity that was maybe different than it might be if the same event were celebrated in this country? Is there anything that is very Danish about it?

HOGLIND:

Well, they did have some speakers. There was, my mother had a friend, a girlfriend, and her parents had a farm, too, in the town. Well, she married a schoolteacher from Copenhagen. He was at Copenhagen schools. And he, he had written up a nice story on it. I'll get that out for you after. And he'd written up a nice story about the whole, how these people had, this couple had gotten together and married and raised four children and he was a shoemaker and they settled in this little house. And . . .

LEVINE:

That's nice.

HOGLIND:

Yeah. It was. It really was. This house now is, I guess it's owned by them, but by my, I, was it my mother's cousin or, it's somebody in the family that when they retired from their farm they bought this house, see, and as far as I know, see, I haven't been there quite, in about ten years now.

LEVINE:

Do you remember that house from before you left Denmark?

HOGLIND:

Oh, yes.

LEVINE:

Can you remember any experiences that you had there?

HOGLIND:

Well, like, my brothers, the minute school closed in Copenhagen they headed for here, and one funny thing was my mother would send them out with new sneakers. Grandma put them up ( she laughs ) on top somewhere, and they had to wear wooden shoes, you know. It was really funny. And, what was it else you asked?

LEVINE:

I was just asking any experiences you remember in your grandparents' town?

HOGLIND:

Yeah, well, it was mostly, I didn't go out there as much because I was younger, see. I was the youngest, and she, and they, they were out there. As soon as school closed they went and stayed there, you know, until school let out, until school was open again.

LEVINE:

Well, that was like going to the country, I guess.

HOGLIND:

Oh, sure it was, because it was outside the city of Copenhagen. We used to take, well, at first there was a train connection. We got from Copenhagen to this Roskilde, and that was by train. And then we used to go by bus, but then there was a connection, in later years another train extension came out there, and it was not right to their town but close by. So that was quite a change for that community.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. How did they get around? How did your grandmother and grandfather . . .

HOGLIND:

Bicycle or, uh, bicycle or, well, walk. My grandfather walked. When he had a pair of shoes that he had finished he would stuff up his pipe, you know, and take off down the road to the farm. And he would sit and talk to the farmers. He was very social. And they'd have a beer, and they would discuss crops and so on and so forth, because my grandfather didn't have crops but the farmer did, you know. And it was, so it was a conversation like that. And, let's see, what else?

LEVINE:

Was he, was he the only shoemaker . . .

HOGLIND:

In the area, yeah. Uh-huh. He was. And, as I say, he walked to, he always liked to, when he finished a pair of shoes under his arm and his pipe was stuffed and he'd go off and spend an evening or an hour or two with one of the, with the farmers that he would, who had the shoes repaired, you know, and so on.

LEVINE:

Was he actually making shoes?

HOGLIND:

No. He wasn't making them. He was a repairer.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, what, first of all, what are your brothers' names?

HOGLIND:

Well, my oldest brother that's living over there, his name is Anker, A-N-K-E-R. And the other one, Paul, died at age fifty-nine, so that's quite a long time ago. And then myself, I'm the youngest.

LEVINE:

And your father, what was his name?

HOGLIND:

Uh, his name was Aksel, A-K-S-E-L, I guess it is.

LEVINE:

And did you know him? When did he leave for . . .

HOGLIND:

Well, he left, and then I guess my mother thought things, the economy was not so good in Denmark at that time, and the, she thought the boys were growing up, and while they wouldn't have college or anything like that, that was out of reach, you know, and so she thought, well, he came back from here and talked her into going back with him over to this country.

LEVINE:

Do you remember when he went first and then when he came back?

HOGLIND:

No, no. I don't remember that at all.

LEVINE:

When he came back did he stay a while or did he . . .

HOGLIND:

Not too long, maybe a week or two, that's all.

LEVINE:

Oh, and then he went back?

HOGLIND:

Back to the states here. Then in '24 was when we came over, see.

LEVINE:

Well, then, had you had much contact with him?

HOGLIND:

No, no.

LEVINE:

As a young girl?

HOGLIND:

They were estranged, really. Because he, he was alcoholic. He had a very good position in Denmark as a mailman, you know, with the red coats on, and he made the mistake of leaving his bag of letters in a hallway out of his area, and he lost the job and that's how he came over here.

LEVINE:

So then what did, did he, was he sending money for you and your . . .

HOGLIND:

I don't think so, no. My mother worked on her machine. You know, she worked for this store. I think I repeated. And she supplied us okay.

LEVINE:

So that was your mother's mother and father there.

HOGLIND:

Parents, yeah.

LEVINE:

Did you know your father's parents?

HOGLIND:

No, no. I had very little knowledge of them, yeah.

LEVINE:

Okay. When, you said there was a courtyard behind your apartment building.

HOGLIND:

Yeah, well, it was a yard, you know. Because we lived in the city and this particular building went, this was the corner and it went this way. Now, we lived here in what they call, Obsolezgev was 27, and this one was Estagev 58.

LEVINE:

Maybe you could spell those.

HOGLIND:

Yeah, after. And so, but the halls ran this way. We were up on the fourth floor, and we, there were stores down the bottom, you know. Down on street level there was a big margarine place there and then a man that sold bread and coffee. It was quite, very different, you know.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Now, what would you play as a child. Do you remember games that you played with your friends or brothers?

HOGLIND:

Well, we had games, you know, at home, up in our home. Like the Parchesi, yeah.

LEVINE:

Oh, uh-huh.

HOGLIND:

Yeah. But, of course, it's called something else there. And I know what we had, too, the little girls got these round glass things. They're flat and had some kind of design on top and we, it was potsy.

LEVINE:

Oh. Is that hopscotch? Did you use them as hopscotch? Did you throw them and . . .

HOGLIND:

No, you couldn't throw, it was glass, but you'd put it down and then, well, it was two here, two boxes here and then a box there and two more, you know. And then you would just put it down, number one, and you would hop on one foot and try to get it in. If you kicked it too hard it would go out and you would be out, you know what I mean? That was how we played that game.

LEVINE:

Can you remember anything else that you did for fun when you were, before you came to this country?

HOGLIND:

Well, not too much, but I do some. I did start school in Denmark. I went for about a half a year before we came here.

LEVINE:

Do you remember anything, what the school was like, as compared with what you experienced later?

HOGLIND:

You know, a little bit. Well, for one thing, I was left handed, and they did not permit that in Denmark at that time. My brother that's over at the hospital, he used to have to sit with me and force me to write right handed. Because I write right handed, but I'm left handed. I do things left handed, you know. And . . .

LEVINE:

She's . . .

HOGLIND:

Oh, there she is. I didn't hear you come back.

MARTHA:

(?) ( they laugh )

LEVINE:

So you write right-handed but you do everything else with your left.

HOGLIND:

Left hand, yeah. Because I was forced to. The school system wouldn't permit left-handedness at that time. They do today as far as I know, but it was kind of hard because my oldest brother was the one that had to sit there and dredge it out of me. ( she laughs )

LEVINE:

Let's see. Do you remember, was school more strict than it was when you got here, or was there anything about it that was different in particular?

HOGLIND:

Not really, I don't think. I went to school only a short time because, about a half a year, something like that. And I, well, I guess, there wasn't too much about that, you know, because I wasn't there long enough. But when I came here things were a little more complicated, you know, especially kids would stop me on the street and they would talk to me and I didn't know what to say, you know. I didn't understand. That made it kind of hard. But they would surround me and try to talk. They weren't being mean or anything. It was just that I was a curiosity, really. So eventually I caught on.

LEVINE:

What about stories? Do you remember stories that you were told as a child?

HOGLIND:

Not too much, except my brothers used to make up stories, you know. They would have to be put to bed and, uh, they would make up stories, you know, about, like across the street from my grandparents there was a woman living there with two boys. I think she was a widow and she had these two boys and they used to make up stories about these two boys, you know, like, just . . .

LEVINE:

Imagination.

HOGLIND:

Imagination, right. Yeah. Of course, they were country bumpkins. My brothers were from the city, you see. ( she laughs ) How that worked out.

LEVINE:

So how did, well, is there anything else? Were you a religious family? Did you . . .

HOGLIND:

Uh, the Danes aren't particularly religious, right, Martha?

MARTHA:

Right. ( they laugh ) There was a church or something.

HOGLIND:

Yeah, there's plenty of churches, sure. I know I was christened in a church a couple of blocks from where we lived, and it was one of those on a square and the steps came quite a bit up, you know. But underneath the sidewalk, people went underneath the staircase. It was a cement one, I guess, whatever you want to call it. And that's where I was christened. But that's not the church we went to. We went to a church over near where we lived. This big church, as I'm saying, was only a couple of blocks away, but we went to this other church, and that was near, I can't remember too much about that. I did go for a while. And then, of course, we were near the railroad station. It was a big building, big oval facade, you know. And we used to go up there and walk in, and always to the fountain because there was a cup on a chain and we all had to have a drink, you know. ( she laughs ) But we used to go up through that way and just to while the time away.

LEVINE:

Let's see. How about foods that your mother cooked? Do you remember any particular dishes that you were fond of as a little girl?

HOGLIND:

I don't know, really. Of course, we always had oatmeal, like, in the morning, and, uh . . .

MARTHA:

Olebord.

HOGLIND:

Huh?

MARTHA:

Olebord.

HOGLIND:

Olebord? Oh, yeah. They used to make a soup. Eru is beer, and bread, see. It would work out to, help me, Martha.

MARTHA:

Pumpernickel.

HOGLIND:

Pumpernickel, yeah. And you would eat that, you know. But it would be, how could I say, it was prepared so that it was like a cereal, right, Martha?

MARTHA:

Like Cream of Wheat.

HOGLIND:

Huh?

LEVINE:

Cream of Wheat.

HOGLIND:

Just like Cream of Wheat.

HOGLIND:

Yeah, like Cream of Wheat, something like that. That's how it turned out.

LEVINE:

How do you spell it?

HOGLIND:

Olebord? Well, it's a letter that is not in the English language. It's the O with the slash. It's an "eu" sound, and olebord, and then again the O was, you know, with a slash on there.

LEVINE:

Well, is there anything else that you think of when you think of the time that you spent in Denmark as a little girl? Is there anything that . . .

HOGLIND:

Well, it was just that I had to, I did start school. I think I said that, didn't I? I did start school. Of course, that was only like six months and then we left. Well, we played around the streets like other children do here, and as I say we walked up to the train station. It was a very large station or a fairly large station, and I always had a drink of water on their fountains up there. Or next to that railroad station was the City Hall, and there was a fountain there. Of course, in the wintertime it was not running, so we had to climb in there. I often see myself climbing in that fountain. ( she laughs )

LEVINE:

The fountain was inside?

HOGLIND:

No. It was like, there was a building, and then there was a great big area that was cemented and had, that's where the fountain was, like, over in the corner.

LEVINE:

So what would you have to climb in to get to it?

HOGLIND:

Well, I guess there was, they have little stones that were maybe so high. I don't remember. So you could stand on it and get the water, because there was always a cup, see. It was attached to a chain. And you would get the, a drink of water.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

HOGLIND:

Of course that didn't work in the wintertime ( she laughs ) because it would freeze, you see? Yeah.

LEVINE:

When was the decision made, or on what basis was it decided that you and your brothers and mother would come to America?

HOGLIND:

Well, I guess she thought, see, my oldest brother was getting older and she thought, she had these two boys and there was no such thing as higher education for them. Sure, we knew people that had children that went to college, but we were not in that class. And we, I guess she felt, the father came back at the time and wanted her to come over with us, and I guess she made the decision on the basis of the boys what was to happen to them because they were not getting higher education at that time. So she decided to come.

LEVINE:

So did you, how much after the time that your father visited did you and your brothers and mother go?

HOGLIND:

I don't remember the timing, but evidently after that she must have made a decision to pack up and leave because she felt the boys could have more opportunity here, and they did. The one had died some years ago, but he worked for Texaco in the Chrysler building. And the other one went into the food line. He was a cook and so on. He's now eighty-two. But, see, the other one died at fifty-nine. END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

LEVINE:

Do you remember things that your mother packed when she was coming here?

HOGLIND:

Well, I know we had two big crates with bedding and our clothes. And I guess we had suitcases that went on board with us so that we could have clothes, you know, but the rest was shipped over. And her sewing machine. ( she laughs ) And, you know, the funny thing about that, when the ship was about ready to leave there was the machine standing on the pier all by itself and she was all upset because that was her one thing that she had used a lot and maybe needed here, too. So she immediately went to the captain and they, it came later, then. ( she laughs ) She, as a matter of fact, she had that for years. And finally it was, it was a treadle type, and it was converted to electric in her later years because she always sewed, you know. Not commercially any more. That was only in Denmark. But over here she always used it.

LEVINE:

Do you remember any things that you thought about the United States before you actually came? Did you have any ideas in your seven-year-old mind about . . .

HOGLIND:

I don't think so, really. Except, of course we talked about it because we knew we were going, but that's about all. I have no memory, really, of anything that way.

LEVINE:

Do you remember how you felt about coming?

HOGLIND:

Well, I guess it was exciting because we were going to a new country and this long trip across the ocean, you know. It wasn't a hop and a jump like today. I guess it took us maybe eight days, eight, nine days at that time. Because we left in March and it was pretty rugged.

LEVINE:

Do you remember anything about the preparations, getting the visa or tickets or any of that?

HOGLIND:

Yeah, I do. My mother had four tickets, and this one brother Paul, the younger of the two boys, he took them to school and, all four tickets, so that he could prove to them that he was leaving. He wanted to get out to the country to be with the grandparents the little time we had left. My mother was hysterical. She couldn't find the tickets. He was a doozy, that one. ( she laughs )

LEVINE:

So did your mother save up for the tickets? ( a clock chimes ) I mean, did it take a long time to get enough money?

HOGLIND:

Well, she might have gotten money from my father. He sent money, because she, she must have had some money because she worked, you know. But probably, well, I lost my thought, my train of thought.

LEVINE:

About the saving up money for the tickets.

HOGLIND:

Oh, yeah. Well, she had the money, and I'm sure some of it she had and some of it came from him. And then, of course, Paul took it to prove that he was leaving. ( she laughs )

LEVINE:

Well, then, do you remember actually leaving your apartment or, you know, (?).

HOGLIND:

No, I don't remember that part, no. Uh-uh.

LEVINE:

Do you remember saying goodbye to your grandparents?

HOGLIND:

Yes. We went out there and, of course, they were quite upset. ( she pauses ) But, as I said, the boys went out a little earlier on. They always did when it came time for vacations and so on. That's where they headed for. But we did go out.

LEVINE:

Do you think you were treated differently because you were a girl? I mean, treated differently than your brothers in any other ways?

HOGLIND:

Not really, no, no. I do remember when we had to go through the process of health coming into Ellis Island.

LEVINE:

Oh. Well, before you tell me that, tell me about the voyage. Was there anything about the voyage that you recall?

HOGLIND:

Just that we were plenty seasick. ( she laughs ) Because it was, don't forget, it was March. We got here April 1st, and it was bad because we were all four seasick, you know. We were all in one cabin. ( she laughs ) So you can imagine what happened. And . . .

LEVINE:

And the name of the ship?

HOGLIND:

Frederick VIII. And it was one they always said was top-heavy. That's why it rolled so much. And, as I said, it was March. It was wintry and so on.

LEVINE:

And so you left from . . .

HOGLIND:

Copenhagen.

LEVINE:

Copenhagen was where you departed from?

HOGLIND:

Yes, uh-huh. And we got to, the ship went to Hoboken, New Jersey. That's where they anchored at that time. And then we were taken by a small boat over to Ellis Island where we went through a health check. They took a pencil and wrapped our eyelids around it for diseases, you know. I can remember the boys had to go separately and my mother got upset because she didn't want to be separated. She didn't know if we'd ever meet again, you know. But, anyway, she and I had to go to the women's section and they, I guess we were almost stripped and then they examined us. And they especially went for the eyes because of diseases in the eye. So, but of course we had no problems like that. Denmark was a pretty progressive country even then, and you had health, we always had a doctor, you know.

LEVINE:

Do you remember, can you describe Ellis Island, what struck you about it?

HOGLIND:

Yeah We got off the little boat from the Battery and we got to Ellis Island. And we went to this building that they have over there and it was a huge room, a huge room. Now, I might have exaggerated somewhat because I was a child but, yes, there was a big room there and we had to wait and that's where we had the examination, where the women went to one and the boys went to the other. And then that's where my father came. There was like a big desk, high desks, you know, where he could probably just about look like that, you know. And that's where we met him. And then we went by a small boat over to the Battery, or there around the Battery there, somewhere there.

LEVINE:

Do you remember your reunion with your father, or anything about it?

HOGLIND:

No, uh-uh, uh-uh. I only remember him standing at that desk. It was a high desk up here, you know. ( she clears her throat )

LEVINE:

And did you see the Statue of Liberty when you came into the Harbor?

HOGLIND:

Yeah, uh-huh, we did. We were all on board. Everybody got on board and hung over the rail to see, you know. Because the boat didn't come that close to, well, yes, we went to Hoboken so we passed the Statue of Liberty. And that's where we got off. That's where he met us.

LEVINE:

Did you know, did you know that that was coming up? I mean, had you known about . . .

HOGLIND:

Sure, yeah. I was going on eight, seven-and-a-half, something like that, so I was quite aware.

LEVINE:

And on, your accommodations on the ship. Were you in the hold? Were you in what's called steerage? Were you . . .

HOGLIND:

Oh, no, not steerage. We were third class.

LEVINE:

Third class.

HOGLIND:

But not steerage. The Poles were the ones that got into the steerage, because they came on board in Copenhagen and they, you know, the clothing and bedding and sheets and they carried them on their backs. I mean, they were very poor at that time. And they got into the lower part of the ship. We were on third class, but they were the ones that were in steerage.

LEVINE:

Do you remember the dining, did you go to a dining room?

HOGLIND:

Yeah, yeah. They had long tables. Yeah, we went to that.

LEVINE:

And, so when you, your father met you and you went to Battery Park. Then what from there?

HOGLIND:

Well, he had rented an apartment in Brooklyn, and we went there. And that was our home from then on, for a while anyway. Because this, this apartment was on Jackson Place in Brooklyn, and in back of that, in a feed store, and it was still a grocery store there. But mice, we had mice, so many mice. They climbed up the curtains. ( she laughs ) It was awful. But we didn't live there very long. It was only a matter of, I had an uncle that was his brother, and he was a chiropractor, but he was starting out in his profession, and he used to go to the people. You know what a chiropractor is? And he would go to them and give them the treatment. He had a little car and he went around. So he found us, he went to some people on East Third Street in Brooklyn, and they were Scandinavians too, but they had been born here, but their parents had been Danes, and he got us an apartment there instead of where we were living, and that's how we started. We lived there for quite a while.

LEVINE:

So what was your father doing then for work when you first came?

HOGLIND:

I don't really know. I really don't know.

LEVINE:

And, so, you went to school and your brothers started school right away, or?

HOGLIND:

Yeah, yeah. Well, there was a school about a block away, P.S. 10, and we all went, the three of us went. My uncle came and got us enrolled in the school, and . . . ( she laughs ) I was a pest because I would start to cry, and I'd say, "Paul!" Poor, Paul would get so mad ( she laughs ) because I'd bother him. They would send me to him, you know. But my oldest brother, Anker, he didn't, he got, well, he was about fourteen, I guess, so he, he didn't, he went to school for a couple of years. Then he went into the business of being a cook and he also went in the army when he was about seventeen and he, that was his, what he did, you know. But he always cooked. He was a cook. And Paul, he was different. He worked for Texaco Company in the Chrysler Building when he was about seventeen, I guess, too, when he got out of school, and worked there until he died at age fifty-nine. And so that was kind of hard. And . . .

LEVINE:

Do you remember your first little while in this country, do you remember any things that struck you as different?

HOGLIND:

Yes, I do. I was, I would go out in the street. They'd send me out to play, you know. And the kids would surround me, and I'd come back and I'd say to my father, I guess, and say, "They tell me ocha nien?" They were saying, "What's your name?" But that's what I got out, "Ocha nien?" ( she laughs ) The pitfalls you go into, you know.

LEVINE:

Now, what was it like being around your father, because this was really the first time that you'd been with him.

HOGLIND:

Well, yeah. Well, uh, it was not the best because he was mostly alcoholic, you know. And that was what had split them in the first place. I mean, in Denmark he had been a letter carrier, which is quite a good position over there, and he left the mail in the hallway somewhere else, and he went drinking, I guess, and that was it. So that's how he left and came over here. But it was not easy in the beginning because you don't know the language, and I was sent to school the week after. My uncle came and he sent, he enrolled us in the school, in the public school. And, you know, kids would surround you and you don't know what to say.

LEVINE:

Do you remember any incidents that happened in your learning the language or learning to read? Anything stand out?

HOGLIND:

Well, that was a little hard, but then we, we moved shortly, from that original place we moved shortly after that, after, say, three or four months we moved. And we went down to this East Third Street, and the people there were Scandinavian and they helped me a lot, especially this one, Uncle Tony, I called him. He was such a nice man. He fixed up a nice carriage for my first Christmas, you know, and stuff like that, and my mother made bedding for the carriage and all. And then, but he would sit with me, because I went to school and, of course, I wasn't progressing very fast because of the language barrier. So he helped me a lot.

LEVINE:

He would just say words to you and say what they were?

HOGLIND:

Yeah, yeah. I would go to him and we would work it out, you know. Yeah. He would help a lot.

LEVINE:

So then you stayed in school until how long?

HOGLIND:

Well, oh, sure. Well, after all, I went through grade school, and then I went to Girls Commercial High School. And since coming to Florida I have college credits, so I did get an education, you know.

LEVINE:

Great. What, what was your first job?

HOGLIND:

My first job? Well, it was during the Depression, you know. And it was difficult getting a job, but I did get one. How was it in the beginning, now? ( she pauses ) Are you still recording? ( Dr. Levine nods ) Yeah? ( she laughs )

LEVINE:

Sure. If you, if that slipped your mind we can just keep going and if it comes to you it's fine.

HOGLIND:

I can't think of it.

LEVINE:

Were you doing secretarial work? Is that what you did when you . . .

HOGLIND:

Yes. I went to work in an office, and I did. I wasn't doing secretarial work at that time. But I was a switchboard operator, and then I was moved into the bookkeeping office and so on. As a matter of fact, I eventually went to St. Pete Junior College and I have college credits there, so, and a little bit of education anyway. But . . .

LEVINE:

Did your mother learn English?

HOGLIND:

Yeah, but she spoke a broken English, you know. She never really recouped. I mean, she was in her late thirties at that time and it was difficult for her. But she did learn to travel around, you know, by, like . . .

LEVINE:

Public transportation.

HOGLIND:

Public transportation, and so on, so that she did get around. She could talk to people, even though it was broken English.

LEVINE:

Was she happy she had decided to come here, do you think, or did, was . . .

HOGLIND:

I think so. I mean, it was, she did it because of the boys. Denmark was in not too good a shape economy-wise. And she thought while she had the opportunity, when the father came over there, that these boys come and earn a living. Now, my oldest brother became a cook, and he worked in the big hospitals like State Hospitals and so on. Sometimes he had jobs in restaurants, you know, nicer restaurants. And the other one, as I said, he worked for Texaco all his life until he died. And . . .

LEVINE:

Did your mother carry on any customs in this country?

HOGLIND:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

. . . that she had brought with her?

HOGLIND:

Yeah, we always ate Danish.

LEVINE:

Oh.

HOGLIND:

( she laughs ) Right, Martha?

MARTHA:

Yeah.

HOGLIND:

Well, she cooked Danish style, you know, and so on. Yeah, we did, she did.

LEVINE:

And did she, was she a housewife when she came here or was she, did she also work at some time?

HOGLIND:

Well, she did work at times, but mostly she was a housewife, yes.

LEVINE:

So, let's see. How did you meet your husband?

HOGLIND:

Well, I got into the Danish folk dance group. Right, Martha?

MARTHA:

Right.

HOGLIND:

And that's where I met him.

LEVINE:

Say a little about the Danish clubs or organizations that . . .

HOGLIND:

Clubs. Yeah, well, we met in a church. There was two Danish churches in Brooklyn and they weren't very far apart, maybe eight or ten blocks, Martha? She went, they went to one, I went to the other, and our church as a little more staid. I mean, they . . .

MARTHA:

Stricter.

HOGLIND:

Stricter. Whereas their church had dancing. It was folk dancing, Danish folk dancing, but it was still dancing, you see. And it was not in the church proper. It was in a locale room, you know, that they had for affairs and things like that. But that's where we met. And where I met Martha, of course. And we danced there a long time, didn't we, Martha?

MARTHA:

Yeah.

HOGLIND:

We even had, well, it was a large group, and we had a home on Long Island that we rented and we could go out there in the summer time, you know. There was boating and swimming. And the girls all stayed in the big house, and the boys went to the barn. They had their cots lined up in the barn which they had fixed up, you know. It wasn't a barn then, but it had been at one time. And so we did a lot out there. It was a wonderful time.

LEVINE:

What was the name of the club?

MARTHA:

Danish Folk Dancing.

HOGLIND:

Oh, yeah. Danish Folk Dancing Society. I'm confusing it with the Athletic Club, which was in Brooklyn. You know, it was a club, a Danish club.

LEVINE:

I was going to say, what other Danish organizations were there that, where people socialized?

HOGLIND:

Well, there were two Danish churches. Martha and her brothers went to one. I went to the other. I went to Salem. And we had a lot of good times in those churches. We had Christmas tree parties, you know, Christmas parties where the big tree was put up and we danced around it in the traditional style. And I was confirmed in that Danish church. Salem was the name of it. And I was in Sunday school there, and I, yeah, I got stuck on that. Anyway, that was the life there. And then in the church I went to they didn't believe in dancing. They were stricter. But her church had a folk dance group. ( she laughs ) That's where we gravitated, and meanwhile I had met, in high school I had met a Danish girl, Lillian. She had come over as a twelve-year-old. And we became fast friends, and then we heard about this folk dance group, so we of course hot-tailed it over there, and we had some real good times there. And then we had, that club had a home on Long Island that we went to in the summer time. Boys had boats. Nothing ever went wrong there. Here you had this group of young people, and never anything wrong. Right, Martha? Really. It was the nicest thing in our lives, really. We went out there. Of course, it was quite a distance from the city, so we would get rides from the people who had cars and so on, and out we'd go for the weekend.

LEVINE:

Wonderful. What was your husband's name?

HOGLIND:

Knud. K-N-U-D in Danish, but he changed it to Knute.

LEVINE:

And do you have children?

HOGLIND:

I have one daughter.

LEVINE:

And what's her name?

HOGLIND:

Uh, Judith. ( she gestures ) There she is, right there.

LEVINE:

And you have grandchildren?

HOGLIND:

Just that little guy. It's all him. ( she laughs ) ( she gestures ) This is how he, here, that he looks today.

LEVINE:

Oh, wow. And what's your grandchild's name?

HOGLIND:

His name is . . .

MARTHA:

( she laughs ) J.C.

HOGLIND:

( she laughs ) J.C. John Christopher. We call him J.C.

LEVINE:

I see. And his last name?

HOGLIND:

Is, uh, what's his father's name, now?

MARTHA:

Osborne?

HOGLIND:

Osborne, yeah. Osborne, yeah. My daughter uses Hoglind.

LEVINE:

Oh.

HOGLIND:

Yeah. She hasn't changed it to that, but he's Osborne.

LEVINE:

Okay. Well, is there anything that you'd like to say about the fact of coming here as an immigrant, as a child, and really making your life here. Do you think that's affected you, or what kind of meaning do you place on that?

HOGLIND:

Well, I think that probably it hasn't affected me because we had, we lived well enough here. We enjoyed it. We had, as I said, with Martha we got the folk dance group, you know, as teens, you see. And we went to the Danish church, which was our form of getting to know people. We went to, I went to Sunday school and I was confirmed there, I was married there, and what else can I say? That was our life, the church. Not that we were fanatic or anything like that, but it was, we met nice people, contemporaries. And that's how I got to know Martha's brother, because I went, they had folk dancing in their church, and I went over there, and that's the way it happened.

LEVINE:

I'm curious because now people like you who came, who came through Ellis Island are really being honored. You know, that's the purpose of this interview and the Oral History Project, to get your stories and all that. It seems like, do you, how does that strike you? I guess I'm just curious, because a lot of people had experiences when they first came over of being called greenhorns and being prejudiced against in some ways. Now it's kind of gone completely the other way so that it's something really to be proud of.

HOGLIND:

I know, to go back to the earlier part, when I walked on the street, like near my home, why, some of the kids would surround me and they would talk to me, and I didn't know what they said. I'd stand there, you know, like a greenhorn, and I'd come home, and I'd say, they called, they said, "Ocha nien." And I finally got the translation. They were saying, "What is your name?" ( she laughs ) But this is the way I interpreted it. You know, after all, I'm a Dane. So that was one thing that was kind of difficult, you know, because they would surround you and if you got around on the streets, you know. And so I always remember that, "Ocha nien."

LEVINE:

So I think that's maybe a good place to stop.

HOGLIND:

Okay.

LEVINE:

And I want to thank you very much, a very interesting and enjoyable interview. And . . .

HOGLIND:

Now, who did you say you're with?

LEVINE:

I'm Janet Levine, and I'm with the National Park Service. And I've been here today with Asta Hoglind, and it's April 17, 1993, and I'm signing off.