LEVINE:

This is Janet Levine for the National Park Service. And I'm here today, August 9th, 1993, in Worcester, Massachusetts. I'm here with Mr. and Mrs. Milos, both of whom came through Ellis Island from Greece. We're going to start with interview with Mrs. Milos, that is, Persephone Milos, who came from Greece in 1916 when she was four years old. At this time Mrs. Milos is eighty-one years old. And I want to say that I'm very happy to find that you also came through Ellis Island...

MILOS:

Thank you. Glad to have met you, too.

LEVINE:

...and that you have a story to tell. So let's start at the beginning, if you would give me your birth date and the town you were born in.

MILOS:

I was born June 11th, 1912 in Douvinia, Greece.

LEVINE:

Could you spell that, please?

MILOS:

D-O-U-V-I-N-I-A.

MR. MILOS:

N-I-A. N-I-A.

LEVINE:

And did you live in that town?

MILOS:

I was born there, I lived there...

LEVINE:

Lived there until you...

MILOS:

...until I came to Ellis Island.

LEVINE:

Do you remember, I know you were only four, but do you remember anything about the town?

MILOS:

It was just beautiful. I, all I can remember is the flowers. Fields and fields of flowers. And it just brings tears to my eyes to think about it now. And I lived near my grandmother, and I used to go. And I used to have some friends, which I remember one friend that I had. I had made, they had made me a doll out of a clothespin. And I treasured that doll, and that girl took it on me. And I went looking for it and I got lost. They couldn't find me because I was going after my doll. And that's all I can remember about Douvinia. And I can't remember when we left, but I can remember when we were on board. And it was just a big, big hall with...

LEVINE:

Bunk beds.

MILOS:

...bunks of beds. The whole thing. And they vaccinated me and I became sick.

LEVINE:

Well, let's, tell me your grandmother's name.

MILOS:

My grandmother's was...

MR. MILOS:

Yanoula [PH].

MILOS:

Yanoula? Yanoula.

LEVINE:

How do you spell that?

MILOS:

Y-I-O-U-L-I-A, I guess. I'm not sure exactly.

LEVINE:

Now, was she your mother's father, mother's mother?

MILOS:

She was my mother's mother.

LEVINE:

Do you have any remembrance of her maiden name?

MILOS:

Her maiden name? I can't remember. (to Mr. Milos) Do you remember. No, I can't remember.

MR. MILOS:

Sahina?

MILOS:

Well, well, there was a Sahina. I'm not sure if it was, if it was that or not to tell you the truth. I...

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. What, how would you spell that name?

MILOS:

S-A-H-I-N-A.

LEVINE:

So you were related to that family...

MILOS:

Yes. Yeah.

LEVINE:

...whether or not it was your grandmother's maiden name. Do you remember any experiences with your grandmother when you were a little girl?

MILOS:

No, I don't. I remember that my mother had a brother that was sick. And we couldn't go into the room because he was sick, and he had a contagious, which was T.B. at the time. I remember that, and going under his bed, and they'd find me, and they'd, and they'd come and look for me and I'd be under his bed. And that's, that's about all I can remember there. And then when I came to Ellis Island, and my father came to pick us up, I remember the first thing, I came with another, another man, but I can't remember his name. I can't remember his name. Anyway, the first thing they gave me was a box of Uneeda Biscuits. The big size. And I thought, I treasured them, I thought they were just wonderful. And then we came and we went right straight to Worcester...

LEVINE:

Well, let's go back, just, and see if there's anything else about Greece. What, what was your mother's name?

MILOS:

My mother's name, Cleopatra.

LEVINE:

And, and her maiden name?

MILOS:

Economous.

LEVINE:

And how do you spell that?

MILOS:

E-C-O-N-O-M-O-U-S. I don't know. Just like the girl that's here. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Oh.

MILOS:

She's an Economous.

LEVINE:

So, let's see. And your father's name?

MILOS:

Jordan. Which they called Iordanis. That's the way it's called in Greek.

LEVINE:

How do you spell that, do you know?

MILOS:

I don't know how to spell it in Greek. Jordan is all I know.

LEVINE:

Okay. Okay, and, and so his, your maiden was what?

MILOS:

My maiden name was Lianides. L-I-A-N-I-D-E-S.

LEVINE:

Okay. And did you have brothers and sisters?

MILOS:

Have I?

LEVINE:

Yeah.

MILOS:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Did you in Greece, when you were...

MILOS:

No. No, no, no. No.

LEVINE:

No.

MILOS:

I was the only one that came here. My sisters and brothers were born here.

LEVINE:

I see.

MILOS:

But we came with my mother and an uncle. Her brother.

LEVINE:

What was his name?

MILOS:

Vlasis.

LEVINE:

V-L...

MILOS:

Wasn't it Vlasis? Yes. Yes. The one that got sick after, yes, Vlasis.

LEVINE:

V-L-A-S...

MILOS:

S-I-S, I guess.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So...

MILOS:

They kept him there at Ellis Island because there was something wrong with his eyes. And we used, we were crying because we were thinking they were going to send him back, but after a week he came.

LEVINE:

Oh, good. Okay...

MILOS:

I remember that part of it, or maybe they talked about it after and I remembered it.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So, apart from the story with the little clothespin doll, do you remember anything, like anything you did with your mother when you were in Greece, or your father, or your uncle or anything?

MILOS:

Oh, my father wasn't there. I don't remember my father until I came here.

LEVINE:

When did your father come to the United States?

MILOS:

Well, I mean, he came, he must have came four, five years before.

LEVINE:

Oh, so he came before you were born...

MILOS:

Oh, yes. Yes.

LEVINE:

...or after you were born.

MILOS:

Yes.

LEVINE:

So you never knew your until you came here.

MILOS:

No, I never knew until I met him here.

LEVINE:

I see.

MILOS:

No.

LEVINE:

And, do you remember anything about the town? Stores or market or the house you lived in?

MILOS:

Nothing. I can't remember a thing. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Yeah. Well, you were very young.

MILOS:

Nothing.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Okay. But you remember the flowers.

MILOS:

I remember the flowers. And they smelled so, I can still smell the, the little orchid. Well, I don't know what they called them, but I mean, they may be a different thing than here, but there was loads of them all over the place. Violets, like, you know what I mean? That kind.

LEVINE:

Were they like a blue color, blue or purple?

MILOS:

Purple.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

MILOS:

Purple. Fields of them. And going up and the down the stairs into my grandmother's house. I guess we must have lived together, only they were separated with the stairs on the outside. That's all. I can't remember anything else. I can't remember when I left. I don't even remember that. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Do you remember when your father was here was he sending money back, or was your mother working?

MILOS:

No, no. My mother wasn't working. My father was sending money. Yes. I remember that. And I can't remember her going out to, like they used to say, going out and washing clothes in the lakes or whatever it was, because that's the way they used to wash clothes, but I can't remember it.

LEVINE:

Well, do you remember, did your father send you tickets? How, how did it happen that you...

MILOS:

Yes. We got the tickets that we could come out. Yes. We must have, other, how else would we get here. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Do you remember leaving?

MILOS:

No, I don't.

LEVINE:

No. So, do you remember the name of the ship you came on?

MILOS:

Was it Ayios Costanndinos, Charlie? Does that sound familiar?

MR. MILOS:

Yeah.

MILOS:

I knew it, but I forgot it. I don't remember it.

MR. MILOS:

It would be, can I talk?

LEVINE:

Okay.

MR. MILOS:

It would be King, King Costanndinos.

MILOS:

King, I think, I'm not sure.

LEVINE:

So, what do you think it is?

MILOS:

Hmm?

LEVINE:

What ship did you think...

MR. MILOS:

King, King Constantine.

MILOS:

King Constantine.

LEVINE:

King Constantine.

MR. MILOS:

That's the king of Greece.

LEVINE:

Ah. So you, you thought that was...

MILOS:

I think that was it. I'm not sure.

LEVINE:

Okay. And tell me then, what you remember about the voyage.

MILOS:

It was a lot of people, and a lot of, it wasn't, to me it, I don't know. I was sick. And I had a high fever on account of the vaccination they did on me. And my mother used to cry because they thought I was going to die and they were going to throw me overboard. (she laughs) But evidently they didn't. Because they used to have the vaccinations in the arm, which I still have, on the arm then. They didn't have them up here or where it wouldn't show. (she indicates)

LEVINE:

Down by your wrist?

MILOS:

Yeah, right here. (she indicates)

LEVINE:

Oh, your forearm. Uh-huh.

MILOS:

So, but I was all right.

LEVINE:

Where did you get the vaccination, in, on the ship?

MILOS:

On the ship as far as I remember. Right on the ship.

LEVINE:

So, you were sleeping in a big place with a lot of bunk beds?

MILOS:

Oh, a big place. Like a round, round room, like, with a lot of bunk beds, and different people that we didn't know at all.

LEVINE:

It was just you and your mother travelling?

MILOS:

And my...

LEVINE:

And your uncle.

MILOS:

...uncle. And my uncle.

LEVINE:

Do you remember at all the ship coming into the New York Harbor.

MILOS:

No.

LEVINE:

Do you remember anything about Ellis Island?

MILOS:

No, I just remember, like I said, my father was waiting for us there. And he, and this other party that was with us, this other man which came from Douvinia. I wish I, Gianga [PH]. But I didn't, I don't know his real name. I think that was a nickname.

MR. MILOS:

Matthew Panayotou [PH].

MILOS:

Matthew Panayotou's father was it?

MR. MILOS:

Yeah. Panayotou's father.

MILOS:

Oh. And he came to Fitchberg.

MR. MILOS:

He came to...

MILOS:

He didn't come to Worcester. I remember him, but I think he's the one who brought me the Uneeda Biscuits. And I thought they were just wonderful. It was just nothing, really, but we didn't have anything like that there, and it was a package just all my own. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Now, so, in other words, he had been in the United States, and he came...

MILOS:

No. I don't, I don't whether he had been here before or not, but we came with him.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

MILOS:

I mean, he was the only one that I remember from Douvinia where I was born.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

MILOS:

That came back.

LEVINE:

Do you remember anything about Ellis Island, what it looked like or anything that happened?

MILOS:

No. To my, the way I remember it a little bit, it was night, that I couldn't really see that much. And I must have slept all the way out here. Evidently I must have been tired or whatever.

LEVINE:

So you came by train after you...

MILOS:

As, as far as I can remember...

MR. MILOS:

Yeah. Train.

MILOS:

It must have been train. It wasn't by plane and it wasn't by car.

MR. MILOS:

Train.

MILOS:

They didn't have cars then for people to, my father didn't drive. I know he never drove.

LEVINE:

So you came right, what was it like meeting your father? Do you remember the meeting?

MILOS:

No.

MR. MILOS:

I was...

MILOS:

Meeting my father I don't, I don't remember that much. I don't remember it.

LEVINE:

Do you remember what it was like being around him after you got here...

MILOS:

Well, I remember where we came, and we used to wait for him. I used to sit on the window waiting for him to come home for lunch. I remember that much. And it was on, right here on Green Street. What is Green, I...

MR. MILOS:

Harding.

MILOS:

Harding Street, whatever. (Mr. Milos laughs) There was a lot of Greeks there. And we stayed there maybe a year or so and then we moved away. There was a, to a nicer place. But there was a lot of Greek people that lived there and I guess that's where we lived.

LEVINE:

What was your father doing for work here in Worcester?

MILOS:

He worked in a factory.

LEVINE:

Sewing? Or...

MILOS:

No, no, no. I don't know. A machine shop.

LEVINE:

A machine shop. And do you, what do you remember about Worcester when you were a little girl?

MILOS:

Well, it was so big. And I was afraid to go out. I never went out unless my mother was holding my hand. And we'd just chum around with the people that were there. We didn't go far. We didn't go even, I don't remember even going shopping until we moved to another house, which was a year later.

LEVINE:

Were, were people mostly speaking Greek and...

MILOS:

Greek, yes. Yes. Yes. We didn't know the, other than the Greek language.

LEVINE:

Do you remember anything...

MILOS:

And the only thing I remember when I came is that I used to sing a lot. And they'd put me on the table, men, they were here and they had their wives there. (she indicates) In Greece, in Douvinia they loved me because it was like their child. And they'd put me on top of the table and sing and dance for them, and they used to bring me chocolates and all kinds of candy. I remember that. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Do you remember any of those songs?

MILOS:

(she laughs)

LEVINE:

Could you like give a little rendition...

MILOS:

Oh, God.

LEVINE:

...just a little bit, just to get a flavor.

MILOS:

(Greek) (she and Mr. Milos laugh) That's the only song I remember that I used to sing a lot.

LEVINE:

Would you want to sing a little on the tape?

MILOS:

No, I don't want to sing.

LEVINE:

No?

MILOS:

No. I haven't got the voice now. (they laugh)

LEVINE:

Okay. So, you must have started school at some point. Do you remember that?

MILOS:

I didn't start school until I was six years old. (to Mr. Milos) I have one, honey.

MR. MILOS:

Well, go ahead. Give me that.

MILOS:

Here. I have one. I was six years old when I started school. (she blows her nose) They didn't know, they didn't know at the time that I should have gone to school, you know what I mean? They didn't know. So some neighbor, not a, not Greek, said, "She's six years old. She's got to go to school." So I didn't go straight to kindergarten, I went to first grade. Thomas Street School in Worcester.

LEVINE:

Do you remember anything about that school?

MILOS:

Oh, I remember quite a bit of the school.

LEVINE:

Yeah? Could you describe it. It would be interesting to have some information about what Worcester was like back then.

MILOS:

Yes. I used to walk to school. And I remember, I don't know, a friend of, that lived next door which wasn't Greek, she took me, and held me by the hand and took me to school. And I thought it was wonderful. And the first teacher's name I think was Miss Shea. I had a Miss Shea in first grade. (she laughs) Anyway. And I went to school there, Thomas Street, until the seventh grade. And I didn't go after that.

LEVINE:

What was it like in the beginning when you didn't speak English?

MILOS:

Well, I didn't, I liked school. I didn't mind it. And then, of course, my mother didn't speak English at all. My father spoke very, very little. Never, never talked too much English anyway.

LEVINE:

Well, were there other children in the school who also were from other places and didn't speak English?

MILOS:

Well, I don't know...

LEVINE:

Or in your class...

MILOS:

...I think they all spoke, as far as I remember they spoke English. And then maybe in the second or third grade there was another party that came from Greece, from where I was from. Spadlobobitis [PH].

MR. MILOS:

Black, black people there.

MILOS:

I don't know.

MR. MILOS:

Black children, too.

MILOS:

Who?

LEVINE:

There were black children in your, in your school?

MILOS:

Black, oh, yes.

LEVINE:

What was that, how did that strike you?

MILOS:

It didn't affect me. I had Chinese friend that owned a cleaning place. And I used to go to school with her. I liked her. And the, the colored people were fine. I mean the black people. At the time we called them a different name then than they do now. But we lived in a neighborhood where there was a lot of them.

LEVINE:

Did you ever experience any prejudice because you were a greenhorn, or that kind of thing that you were not...

MILOS:

No.

LEVINE:

...American born?

MILOS:

I don't remember anything like that.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

MILOS:

No. We liked the teacher and the teacher loved us, and got along fine.

LEVINE:

What was different, do you remember any difference between life here, the house you lived in, the community, and, and what you had been familiar with in Greece?

MILOS:

Well, see, I don't know, I don't remember that much about Greece. And here we went to the school, we went from nine o'clock in the morning, went out for lunch, and went back until four o'clock, and from four o'clock we went to Greek school.

LEVINE:

Oh.

MILOS:

I started Greek school when I was eight, nine years old. Five days a week.

LEVINE:

What did you learn in Greek school?

MILOS:

Everything. Religion on Saturdays. And the regular, everything from, from Greek history and, to read and write. We went there every single day. Sunday was, it was a whole week of school and church.

LEVINE:

Was the Greek school held in the Greek church.

MILOS:

Hmm. Downstairs in the Greek church. There was a hall downstairs. Not here where they have it now. And we all, and we had all kinds of, they, once a year we have, they'd have, hire a hall, and we used to recite poems and do the, the pole, you know, they sing around the pole. What do they call it?

LEVINE:

Maypole?

MILOS:

May, Maypole. (she laughs) And I used to be, I had the loudest voice, and they used to give me all kinds of things to say on the stage. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Did your mother and father ever become citizens?

MILOS:

No. They never did. There were just living to go, thinking maybe, well, I don't think they ever thought they were going back to Greece, but they liked the surroundings of the Greek, and we always associated with the Greeks.

LEVINE:

Do you think your mother and father were happy they came here?

MILOS:

Yes. My mother was happy, and my father, my father never, never questioned going back or anything. He must have been happy, too. And my mother missed her family, of course, but they were happy.

LEVINE:

So then you had brothers and sisters that were born here? And what were their names?

MILOS:

My, I have a sister that's name [sic], I've forgotten her, Sophie. We call her Pat. And then I have a brother, Aristotle. And I have a sister, Helen. And I had a sister, Opiniki [PH], that died. That's about all.

LEVINE:

And, how...

MILOS:

I had also another sister that lived only maybe a year, and she died. When we first came she was born. And I think my brother was, I don't know exactly. My brother is older, the oldest one that's living now.

LEVINE:

Now, do you remember what your sister had, your sister who died as an infant?

MILOS:

The infant? Pneumonia.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

MILOS:

And my other sister that was sick, she had T.B. And my mother died from T.B., too.

LEVINE:

Do you remember any customs that your mother and father held on to from Greece?

MILOS:

All the customs of Greece, really. I mean, everything that you can, just family and visiting, and mostly name days were celebrated. Now they don't celebrate them anymore.

LEVINE:

How did, how were they celebrated when you were a little girl?

MILOS:

Oh, name days, everybody used to come up, and we used to, you know, have a little spread of whatever they could afford. And they'd stay and sing songs and play music and all that. And they celebrated that more than they, no anniversaries, celebrating marriage anniversaries, I mean. Or birthdays there weren't, but we got to the custom after where they celebrated the kids birthdays. And Christmas and New Year's, all the, all the name days were really celebrated, and went to church.

LEVINE:

Now, a name day means that you, it's...

MILOS:

It was a saint that was born on that day.

LEVINE:

And, and was there any connection, like, between the saint and the person whose name day, I mean...

MILOS:

No.

LEVINE:

...in, in your...

MILOS:

No connection. Like Charlie's name day was May 21st. His name was Const, Charlie's name is Costanndinos, see? And all the Constantines celebrated. And people would come and stay for an hour at our house and go to the next Costanndinos. Every Sunday there was some kind of a celebration at somebody's house. And the more you could afford the more you'd put out. And that's what, and we had the old phonographs, and you know, the cranking ones, and all of that. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

And how about food? Did you always...

MILOS:

Oh, we always had the Greek food. And we'd never go out to eat. It would be always at home. And we had no car. We used to take our, all kinds of things. Watermelons and all kinds of Greek food, and go up to Green Hill on Sundays, and walk all the way, no taxis, no nothing. And we'd sit there all in the grass and have a good time. That was the, that was our entertainment.

LEVINE:

Did you, did learn to cook as, as a girl?

MILOS:

Yes. I al, well, as a girl my mother always did the cooking but we always helped. And then I got married very young and I did my own.

LEVINE:

Are there any Greek dishes that you still do that...

MILOS:

Oh, there's a lot of Greek dishes we do. We make pita, all kinds of pita. And we have pastitso, that's made with macaroni and cheese and eggs and butter and milk. And there's different ones. The stifado [PH] and there's a lot of them. And I still make the same. We like it better than we liked the American food. My husband likes it because we're both the same village. And we still make the same.

LEVINE:

So how did you meet your husband?

MILOS:

Oh, how did I meet my husband? (she laughs) My husband came, my uncle lived with us. Not that uncle that I was telling you about. Another uncle that came later.

LEVINE:

And what was his...

MILOS:

And he came with Charlie. Did you come together? Whatever.

MR. MILOS:

He came 1923.

MILOS:

He came 1923. But they were, they were friends in Douvinia. And he lived with us. So he used to come and visit us all the time. So, this is a long story. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Go ahead. Be my guest. This is good.

MILOS:

Charlie, Charlie gets so upset when I tell this story. (she laughs) Anyway, he came, he used to come and visit. And one day my mother said to my father without anybody being there, but I, I wasn't there, I don't remember it. Anyway, that, "What a nice boy. Why don't we tell him about my sister in Greece," my mother said. She had a single sister in Greece. And my fa, Charlie's father was in Greece, too. To go back in Greece and get married. So they told. He says, "All right. I'll write a letter and see what my father has to say." They liked him so well. So anyway, he wrote a letter, and before he sent the letter, he wrote, he showed it to my father and mother, and they read it and they said it's fine. But before he sent it back, he says, "When you send the letter back," he says to his father, "Say that she's a little bit too old for me." Those years the husband had to be at least eight or ten years older than the wife. That's the way it was. It didn't have to be, but that's the way it was. So the letter came that he was too old, she was too old for him. So my, when he said that, my mother said, "Gee, that's too bad. You know, we wanted to make you, you know, one of the family." He said, "Well, how about your daughter." I was only fourteen. And my father says, "She's a baby." So anyway, he says, "I'm young, too. I'll wait." My father said, "No." So he left. My mother was very upset. "If he's willing to wait, why did you say no?" You know? So they told him it was all right. They never asked me. I thought it was going to be my uncle. Because (unintelligible) marry my aunt. (they laughs) Anyway, she thinks it funny.

MR. MILOS:

It is funny.

LEVINE:

Well...

MILOS:

So, I was listening in the other room. I heard my name, but I didn't know what it was all about. They never asked me. Anyway before the engagement my mother said, "What do you think of Charlie?" I says, "Oh, he's so nice," because he used to bring all kinds of things, pastry, because he worked in the restaurant. And he'd bring fruit and pastry and everything. So I says, "Oh, I like him very much," but I didn't know what love was. Fourteen years old. I had brains. (she laughs) Anyway, that's what happened. And we got married when I was seventeen, we got married.

LEVINE:

Wow.

MILOS:

So...

LEVINE:

Did you have children?

MILOS:

Oh, yes. I have a son that's forty-nine, and I have a daughter that's sixty-one. And we have grandchildren, great grandchildren and great, great grandchildren. Yeah, we've been blessed, thank God.

LEVINE:

Yeah. So what is your daughter's name?

MILOS:

Theodora.

LEVINE:

And her, her married name?

MILOS:

Stevens.

LEVINE:

And your son?

MILOS:

My son is George Milos. He's not married. All these are all from my daughter.

LEVINE:

From your daughter. Uh-huh.

MILOS:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Well, what are you most proud of in your...

MILOS:

I'm proud of my children because they've been wonderful children. Nothing about drinking and no dope and none of that that other children are doing nowadays. And my grandchildren, too. None of them. My grandchildren, and the great grandchildren, of course, are little. But it's great, it's five generations. Isn't that wonderful?

LEVINE:

Yes, it really is.

MILOS:

Have you got children?

LEVINE:

No, I don't.

MILOS:

Oh. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Well, tell me, when you look back on your life starting out in Greece and coming here, how do you think that made a difference. I mean, maybe the question is better, what part of you is Greek and what part of is American? What, how do you...

MILOS:

Well, I'm half and half, I would say. I like the American way and everything about it, and I'm, I wouldn't say I'm strictly American, but I love America, because I knew America more than I knew Greece. And I wanted always to go back to the village. And we made, three or four times attempted, but they didn't let us. They wouldn't let us go into Alban, it was Albania afterwards, see, and we couldn't go. And he always wanted to go. We went to Greece, but we went to Yanina, which is, it's Greece , but it's northern Greece. It isn't, that's where his brothers and sisters and everybody was. We went four or five times. But we never could get back to Albania where we were born.

LEVINE:

And, what, how would describe the changes in Worcester, because you've been in Worcester now the whole time.

MILOS:

Hmm. Yes.

LEVINE:

From, from when you were little and growing up here and today.

MILOS:

Well, things have changed completely. Today, we were never afraid to go to bed at night and close, lock our doors. Let them open. I mean, we go out and we never had to worry at night, as, as little kids even. We always lived in a neighborhood where there was a lot of Armenian people, and, mostly Armenian and Greek, and Albanian, I don't remember any Albanians. But anyway we always had a good time playing in school and playing in the yard, and that was our entertainment. We'd go to the movies. After we got married, we'd go to the movies once a week on Sundays. We never had a car until, I don't know, maybe twenty years later, after we got married. And then, of course, things changed completely. My husband had more business, and he, you know, things like that. And then when my, my son, I sent him to, we sent him to college. He went for four years. My daughter, she went to college for two years. But we were more of a family life, you know what I mean?

LEVINE:

Yeah.

MILOS:

So everything turned out good as far as children and the grandchildren are concerned. Of course, there was divorces in the great grandchildren. But as they, as every, monkey see, monkey do nowadays. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

Well, there are a lot more divorces...

MILOS:

And it hurt us at first, but we got accustomed to it. Now it doesn't mean a thing. We just found out yesterday that our great, great granddaughter got a divorce. She's got two little children. We were stunned but it didn't bother us that much. But when my granddaughter got divorced, it bothered us a lot. But now it's nothing new.

LEVINE:

Times are different.

MILOS:

It's, times have changed completely.

LEVINE:

Well, is there anything else you can think of that, that might be pertinent to say? How...

MILOS:

No. We went through a lot of sickness. Like my mother got sick and she was in the hospital for two years. And we had to walk for two or three miles to get where we wanted to go see her everyday. And I was married, and I had a little girl then, the little girl. And then she died after two years. Then my sister after two years died with the same sickness. They both had T.B. And then there was no cure for it. But then after that it was all right. But then he struggled in the beginning. He worked. And I didn't work. I worked very little off and on. And he always wanted me to stay home and take care of the kids, which I had, I had lost one in between, but still. Anyway, that was it. END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

LEVINE:

How about this phase of your life? How would you describe this time?

MILOS:

I'm very happy with as much as I have. We're both sick. (she laughs) We both have heart conditions. He has, he died for five minutes and came back, and he still is here. And I've a bypass, five bypass. I had an artificial knee, and to look at me I look fine. (she laughs)

LEVINE:

You look great. Yeah.

MILOS:

But that's the story.

LEVINE:

Okay.

MILOS:

But everything is happy. I mean, we got enough to get along, and, for the rest of our lives, we haven't got that much. I mean, life, I'm talking about. But we're happy. We visit our children, the grandchildren, we see them once in a while. They call up all the time. No, we're very happy with our family.

LEVINE:

Okay. All right. Well, I think maybe we'll close here.

MILOS:

Yes.

LEVINE:

I want to thank you very much.

MILOS:

It's nice talking to you.

LEVINE:

Nice talking to you. I've been talking with Persephone Milos, who came from Greece in 1916 at the age of four, settled in Worcester, Massachusetts, which is, has been your home for the better part of your life.

MILOS:

Better part.

LEVINE:

Okay. Thank you very much. It's August 9th, 1993, and this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service, and I'm signing off.