LEVINE:

This is Janet Levine for the National Park Service. It's August 10, 1993. I'm here in the Illyrian Gardens housing in Worcester, Massachusetts. I'm here with Phyllis Vani, who came from Albania in 1936 when she was seventeen years old. And --- [Intervening voice] So, I'm looking forward to hearing your story for lots of reasons. [Intervening voice, Interview suspended] Okay, we're resuming again. So, let's start with your birth date.

VANI:

My birthday is February 2, 1917.

LEVINE:

And where were you born?

VANI:

I born in Korca, Albanian.

LEVINE:

And did you live in Korca until you were seventeen?

VANI:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Okay. And, uh, when you were born, your name wasn't called Phyllis. What was it called?

VANI:

When I born --- when I born my name was Erifili Dismisabani [ph].

LEVINE:

Can you spell the last part, the last name?

VANI:

I can't.

LEVINE:

No. [Not understood]

VOICE:

ER-R-. . .

VANI:

My name is

VOICE:

I-B --

VANI:

Bani, I know. B-A-N-I

VOICE:

[Not understood] Erfili

VOICE:

[Not understood]

VANI:

Erfili [ph]

LEVINE:

So, uh, so you, when you, um, were born, would you, who were you named after? : Is Phyllis now.

VANI:

My, my name? Erifili.

LEVINE:

Was it the saint's name?

VANI:

Yes.

LEVINE:

And, uh . . .

VOICE:

[Not understood]

LEVINE:

When you were born, did you have sisters and brothers?

VANI:

Yes. I have a . . .

LEVINE:

How many?

VANI:

Two sister and three brothers.

LEVINE:

And what was your mother's name?

VANI:

Pomaida [ph].

LEVINE:

Polmaida [ph]?

VANI:

Yeah. Ida, yeah.

LEVINE:

And where, and, um, your father's name?

VANI:

Nom. Nom, yeah.

LEVINE:

N-O-M?

VANI:

Yes.

LEVINE:

And, um, were you the youngest, or what, your brothers and sisters? VANI I was in the middle.

LEVINE:

In the middle.

VANI:

Yes, in the family. Six in the family. Three girls and three boys.

LEVINE:

And did your brothers and sister come, also, to this country?

VANI:

No, no one, just me. And after four years, when I came here, my sister came here, the oldest sister. And I'm the middle one here.

LEVINE:

And, uh, do you remember the house you lived in in Korca?

VANI:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Could you describe it?

VANI:

Yeah. (Albanian) Number 3, Korca, Albania.

LEVINE:

And what did it look like?

VANI:

My house? A nice house, a very nice house.

LEVINE:

What was it made out of?

VANI:

Oh, stone, yeah.

LEVINE:

And did it have a lot of rooms? How many rooms?

VANI:

We have six.

LEVINE:

And, uh, do you remember what your mother cooked on, what kind of . . .

VANI:

My mother cook all the time, nice things. In the morning, in the wintertime, I sleep upstairs, I sleep upstairs, and I can smell shishkabob, you know? Then I come down, I wash myself, and I sit down, and they give us bread, and those piece of meat, dry meat, for they cook it like, uh, what you call that?

VOICE:

Sausage?

VANI:

(Albanian) They cook, you know. We eat and everything, and we go to school after. Yeah.

LEVINE:

And, um, what was school? What kind of schooling was it?

VANI:

Albanian language, Albanian language.

LEVINE:

Did you learn other languages, too?

VANI:

No, no. Just Albanian. Yeah.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And did you go to school with boys, or was it a girls school and a boys school?

VANI:

We, no, the boys separate, the girls separate those days. Not together, no. Separate, yes.

LEVINE:

When you were not in school, would you, uh, would you play with boys outside of school?

VANI:

We play. Yes, we play, yeah. But mostly with the girls, mostly with the girls. We feel more comfortable with the girls.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. And what kinds of things would you play? VANI We'd play, we'd make like a, you know, lines and jump.

LEVINE:

Hopscotch? VANI Yeah, hopscotch, right. (Voice off mike) Yeah. So, anyway.

LEVINE:

Did you have dolls?

VANI:

We make it ourself, dolls.

LEVINE:

What did they, how were they made? What were they made out of?

VANI:

You know those poppies, those poppies in the garden and everything? LEVINE Flowers?

VANI:

Yeah. With some, and we make it like it, you know, dolls. Remember those (Albanian)? Voice: Yeah.

VANI:

So. But we make it with clothes or something. Yeah. LEVINE So the poppy flower?

VANI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

You would use?

VANI:

Yeah, for, for . . .

VOICE:

Play.

VANI:

Play, for make dolls.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Yeah. And, uh, did you have, uh, what did your father do?

VANI:

My father have a factory, make a mill. For my father was three times in the United States, here. They have a brother there, and the brother take care of the mill there. They build a factory with machine to make a mill in the city.

LEVINE:

Milk?

VANI:

No, mill, to make flour.

LEVINE:

Oh, mill. Uh-huh.

VANI:

Yeah. And in the summertime we used to use the machines. The wintertime we go in another town, Visnja [ph]. Where the --- all the water, natural that way. You know, they make a mill. Yeah, for many, many years. Yeah.

LEVINE:

Well, tell me about your father. When did he first go to the United States?

VANI:

Nine-- 18, uh, 89.

LEVINE:

1890?

VANI:

Yeah. No, 1887, '87. In 19-- 1894 come in Albania and then got married. Stay for a couple of years, he come back here for three years. 1912 he went there, and back again United States.

LEVINE:

Did your mother go back with him?

VANI:

No, stayed there, my mother, take care of one daughter there at that time.

LEVINE:

And what was your father doing in the United States?

VANI:

Well, he worked in Uniontown, Pennsylvania, in those mines. So he don't like the job. He comes Strawbridge, Massachusetts. He worked in a glass factory there for many years.

LEVINE:

Eyeglasses.

VANI:

Eyeglasses. And he work for many years here, and he went to Albania, and he don't come back again here. "When I come back here," he said, "Erifili, if you go to Strawbridge, not too far from Worcester, go and check, just check there, maybe because when I leave there I don't even notice I leave the place, and I feel bad. I got two pays there, two weeks pays there. Maybe they have on the record. Just look." I don't bother there. No. So . . .

LEVINE:

So, so, um, your mother never came to the United States.

VANI:

No, no, no, no.

LEVINE:

And it was just that he, he was there.

VANI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

He was in the mining town.

VANI:

Yeah, Uniontown, Pennsylvania. And they work in the mine. Yeah.

LEVINE:

And then he, and then he went back and brought all of you over, or he was here when you came?

VANI:

No, no. No, no, no. All the family there, all the children and everything. I born 1917, many, many years after he came. The Albanians, they were good.

LEVINE:

So, uh, let's see. How many years did you go to school?

VANI:

I go -- I was fourteen years old -- they stop after. They stop me because I have to learn how to -- learn stitch to be dressmaker. And I go there for six months, and they stop me, because my mother need help now. So when I got seventeen years old, my brother went in New York City to make a picnic or something, Albanian. There a lot of people that time, those days. Like, uh, when I ---- my husband came from the United States [Not understood], and my brother, he was ten years older than me, he go and check him everywhere he go. Maybe he's drunk, maybe he's alcoholic or he's gambling or something. And my brother come in the house, Sunday morning. He said, "Phyllis, iron my shirt, because I need that shirt." "For what?" I said. "I'm going out." You know he said, "I meet a gal --- guy from United States, so-and-so in the [Not understood]. Look like so-and-so." I said, "Why are you talking this big thing to me?" "They come from America. You don't want to get in America, [Not understood] in Korca. So, come from America. So if you like it, I can fix you with him." I said, "Huh?" So he fix everything for the family, so three people from the family watching. [Not understood] I was going to take some water, cold water. He said, "Phyllis, go buy some -- fix some water and so-and-so in the corner." I said, "It's too hot, go." Three people stay in the corner, they're asking me, "Can I have some water?" I said, "I don't have any cups here." And my face go red. And I said to my brother when I went, "No, I don't like that kind of trick you did to me. Why you do that? Three people asking me so-and-so. It was American man there, because I know it is American, because he looked like dress up like that." He said, "So, how he --- they look to you?" I said, "No, I don't like him." "You don't like him?" "First everything gets done", he said, "You're going to marry." So that's it. I don't open my mouth any more. And my father tell to my mother, "Why you rush such -- those things, to marry her? She's young. She can help you, she can do something, and everything, to you. She got changed, a lot of changes here. Why you want to marry a girl from America?" he said. "Well, we are too many people here, so send her there to help us here some time." So I said to myself, "Well, I marry him." I stay nine months there. After that I got pregnant.

LEVINE:

You married him then?

VANI:

Yes.

LEVINE:

Right after that?

VANI:

Five weeks engaged, that's it. I got married there.

LEVINE:

Now, did you, did your family have to give the dowry?

VANI:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Do you know what they gave?

VANI:

Yes. Eight hundred, I mean, eighty gold coin, gold coin.

LEVINE:

Eighty gold coins?

VANI:

Yeah. Then my father was talking to my mother, he said, "Well, we need, we started this thing. We gonna finish it now. I'm going to sell the vine -- vine yard, you know?"

LEVINE:

The vineyard?

VANI:

Yeah, make you -- you know, grapes.

LEVINE:

Wine, uh-huh.

VANI:

"We're going to sell that one to marry her, because I don't have any gold money," he said, "to give to my daughter." So we start these things, we had to finish it. And I cried. One night I said, "They're going to sell, they're going to sell that one to marry me? I'm not blind. I'm not crippled. Why to pay?" You know? I don't say nothing to anybody. So I make letter to my aunt in Boston, and I said, "auntie, I'm engaged, I'm going to get married. We don't have money." [Sobs] So my aunt talked to the brothers and everything, they make a check, and five days I got a check in Albania. In those days the mail's coming very fast. So I got the letter and the check inside. And I said, "Papa, you don't have to sell that. I got a check from United States from Auntie and Uncle." He said, "How?" I said, "Here." And he felt so happy.

LEVINE:

He didn't have to sell the . . .

VAN I:

And he blessed me, he don't have to sell that one, because I leave that country, because no work, nobody, you know? Very poor country. So we came here.

LEVINE:

Tell me how you felt about your husband, about marrying him?

VANI:

I marry him. The beginning, I don't like him, really, to tell the truth. He said, "Well, we're going to America. We got two brothers there, two sisters-in-law, and we're going to live together in a new house and everything." And my father said to me, "Listen, dear. You're going United States now. You husband don't have any, you know, educations, things to know anything, you know?" He said, "If you don't get, you know, one house, you don't have money, you've got twice two hands, you have to use it and go to work," he said, "to make a good life in the United States. If you work, you're going to be somebody. And go to work." So I stayed seven years with my sister-in-law and my brother-in-law, and I have my daughter there. They love him, love her very much because they don't have their own children. So I stayed very close with my family, very close. So my, I was one month vacation with my sis --- my cousin, my uncle's daughter, Nefala [ph], [Not understood]. I stay one month there. And when I come house, my husband never talked to me to be separated --- nothing, nothing. So I got cranky but don't say anything to nobody, my husband. So when I come home, the house, my brother-in-law --- my sister-in-law looked to me, and looked different, like something happened in the family. My husband is on the second shift job. I said, "What happened? What happened?" "You don't know?" I said, "No, I don't know nothing." I started crying. [Sobs] So when I think of those days I cry now. So I came in city, I said, girl from good family in Albania, I came here. I came in a good house and everything. Had to [Not understood] in the city, the train go by, I can't sleep for four months here. Because I stay on Beacon Street, the train go every minute, every time there. So I don't say nothing. Little by little, seven years after. So I have my son. When I have my son, I -- so my son, he was five years old, six almost, so I started working myself. My husband said, because he was on --- he was on a strike now [Not understood]. So I said to my husband, "How the money we have in the bank, we spend everything? What can we do now? We have to go." "Why we go on welfare," he said, "if we don't make it?" I said, "Not me." I remember my s- hard – my so-- my father, when he told me, "You've got two hands, you've got eyes, use them and go to work." And I went to work. When I went to work in a priest shop, making, you know, clothes for priests and everything, and I said to myself, "Well, I'm going to work. That's all." and a job, I work good and everything. My husband, he was mad and everything. He don't bring me to take Social Security card. He said, "No. For union strike, probably [Not understood]. "The money, the bank, all gone. What can I do? I can't stay this way." I said, "I don't want to go on welfare." "No?" I said, "I'm going to work." And I went to work. I went in an office there, and I said, "Can I have some work," on so and so and this and that. He said, "Yeah, yes. You've got the card, you know, Social Security card?" I said, "No." So I went with (?), that was on Main Street, with some, my cousins, my cousins. And I said, "Cousin, where is this place to go to take the card?" So they bring me there, I got the card, and I put it in pocket, and I show in the office, and I got the job and everything, and I got, the first time I work for two day, fifteen dollars. And I give to my husband, he throw me away. He don't talk me for five months just because I start working. So I said to myself, "I'm doing wrong, I'm doing bad, I'm doing, I don't want to tell anybody. I don't want to talk to anybody what he feel that way." I said, "Listen, you have to be with me together. We suffer together, we're going to make it together, okay?" After that, little by little --- little by little, he started working and everything, and everything be all right. All these things in life.

LEVINE:

Well, let's back up.

VANI:

Yeah, okay. When I take the, well, we stayed there almost in June. I was, July, July, it was. And I stayed there, and I come to – coming here in this country. My husband said we was going to leave a little longer, but we can't leave because you can't have the baby here. We're going to have a lot of paperwork and everything. We can't do tho--you go – you can't do those things." I said, "Well, what can, what can we do?" "Well, we're going to the United States." So he got the ticket for exit and everything, and we went on a ship, The Douris. We went there, seven women pregnant like me. One four months, one five months, six. I was six.

LEVINE:

On the ship?

VANI:

On the ship. And they took it awa-- and the doctor put it away. I said, "They're going to send me back in Albania? I'm better to throw me in the ocean. I don't want to go back to Albania." So for that one --- those girls, nice to me, two women in a room, they put everybody in First Class. We had a doctor and nurses, you know, first and everything. They're checking us every hour, you know, the blood pressure and everything. We --they take care of us good. But the breakfast, I can't eat it for two - three days. And I said to myself, "Wow, I can't eat that. I can't eat --." They give me eggs scrambled; they give me eggs hard-boiled. I don't want it. I want it just soft boiled. "Can I have the pencil," I said, "a piece of paper, and I can write?" I make a chicken there, I make the eggs and everything, I put four minutes boil, and they understand. They say, "Okay, now." They bring it to me. So everything go all right.

LEVINE:

Where was your husband while you were up in first class?

VANI:

I don't see my husband for six days.

LEVINE:

He's down . . .

VANI:

He was there. He was in a different room.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

VANI:

Yeah. And the last day together and everything, we got together, and we got out in New York there. So when my husband --- we have a woman and girl bringing from Albania --- we don't charge for that. So my husband said, "I'm going to take care of those people, (?) so-and-so, I be back here." Now, nine hours I stay there in that place.

LEVINE:

Ellis Island?

VANI:

Yeah. And the people come, the police said, "You need any help? You want anything?" No language, no nothing. What can I do? What can I say? I have the, what you call, those luggages and all . . .

LEVINE:

Suitcases?

VANI:

Suitcases and a lot of things from, yeah. Why wait there. "What happened to my husband? Wha--?" I don't know. I don't have telephone for my family to call in Boston or something.

LEVINE:

I'm sorry. What did your husband say he was going to do?

VANI:

They have a woman and girl bring it from Albania here, but he have to meet the husband, this woman, that woman restaurant. So they give restaurant there, they talk over, this and that. When he come house, I was so tied up and pregnant. I said, "What you do to me? Why you do this to me?" He said, "Don't cry. Everything going to be all right. I can't leave because the husband got sick, they put in the hospital, so I can't leave them." They have the right one to do, yes. But for me that was very bad. So after that we have a good life, a good fifty years, fifty years married. Fifty, fifty-eight year – fifty-eight years married, we got together.

LEVINE:

So do you remember anything about Ellis Island in particular besides that you were stuck there?

VANI:

Yeah, there was big building and everything nice, you know? But the people, very nice. When I see the people take care of me and everything, they bring me lunch and they bring me everything, I was surprised. I said, but just I was waiting for my husband. What did he do? Maybe something happened. Maybe something wrong, you know? Yeah. So everything all right. [Intervening voice]

LEVINE:

Do you remember the first few days in this country, the first few weeks, different things that you saw that you never saw before?

VANI:

Yes. When I came here I said, "No mountains?" Because Albania they don't have these tree like here, too many trees. Why I see those buildings with wood, they don't have stone houses. [Intervening voice] Yeah. That was, like, you know. And when I came to my sister-in-law and brother-in-law house, brand new home, I was crying, I was not too happy. I looked like, the house was, you know, just a [Not understood] just – just – broom-- --brand new home, and I used to cry. And my aunt from Boston said, "Listen, Phyllis. These people live on the Beacon Street," and this and that. Then it was bad, not bad, but bad. "You come in a new house and complaining? Don't complain, honey, because you're beautiful here, nice house and everything." And I was happy with my brother-in-law, my sister-in-law, lived together for seven -- seven years, happy and everything. All the time happy, all those things.

LEVINE:

This was in Worcester?

VANI:

Worcester, yes. That's my story. And I work for four years, and after that I retired, I went to Albania five times to see my family, and I used to say to my boy, "I spend a lot of money to go there, Paul. I pay this money to be nice to me." "No, I'm glad you see the family, Mama." But I don't my father and mother, just my brother and sisters and family, that's it.

LEVINE:

So, uh, what was your husband's name?

VANI:

Theodore.

LEVINE:

And your children?

VANI:

Paul and Loretta.

LEVINE:

Loretta?

VANI:

Both married. My daughter marry Albanian, my son marry American girl. Wonderful, a wonderful girl, Annamarie, from Baltimore.

LEVINE:

Okay. I just want to stop . . . [Interview suspended]

VANI:

I started working in the shop. A couple of years in a factory, a shoe factory. I worked a few years there. And I changed my name, because when, when the office call me to go there, and the boss from the desk call me, "Arafila, they want you in the office." And I'm working, still working. Call again, I'm still working. I don't understand, they call my name. When he come near me, "Don't you hear me? They want you downstairs." "My name is not Erafila. My name is Erifili. Pronounce it this way." Still, the same thing, he pronounce it all the time. So since then – then I change the name from Erifili to Phyllis. So, that's all. Any more?

LEVINE:

Uh, let's see. What customs did you keep from, from the, from Albania? What customs did you keep?

VANI:

Everything. Tradition, the Christmas, New Year's, Easter, all the time, you keep tradition. Name this, all the time. Yeah. [Intervening voice]

LEVINE:

And, um . . .

VANI:

No, (Albanian) custom.

LEVINE:

Did you say, I'm not sure if this was on tape before, but about the, uh, the baklava.

VANI:

Yes. When, New Year's Day we have to make baklava to put coins there. So New Year's Day we put it on the table, and everybody take one piece. Nobody know where the coin is. When they take the piece on the dish and they open it, "Ooh, I got it, I got it. I'm the lucky one this year." So everybody get to be happy, everybody. So Easter time, I mean, Chris---, I mean, Easter time, they give the, the lamb, they cook it and everything, with the lamb. They make big bread with the eggs for how many people are in the house. A lot of things. We celebrated for three days, Easter. Going places, and churches here and there. So we have a nice time. Every year with the children for those days. Yeah.

LEVINE:

Now, um, in Worcester when you got here, were you part of a whole Albanian community?

VANI:

Yes, yes, especially when I had my family, my brother-in – law and my sister-in-law. I had two sisters from my husband, so two brothers and sister-in-law, very happy. LEVINE Why did they come to Worcester? Do you know why they settled in Worcester?

VANI:

Worcester, the beginning, I don't know. But my father used to say, "Worcester is the best place. They have a lot of Alba -- Albanian there," he said. "Not (?). You're going to see a lot of Albanian there." And I have my couns-- cousins here. I have two uncles and an aunt in Boston. And I was happy after. I have my kids. But before I was crying all the time. So I don't know why. I miss my family -- I was young. I miss the holidays. It was a little hard at the beginning. After years, so.

LEVINE:

And how about your husband? What did he do, when he was here in Worcester, for work?

VANI:

I worked in reading prints for many years.

LEVINE:

The what?

VANI:

Readin' prints. Readin' prints?

VOICE:

Guns

LEVINE:

Oh.

VANI:

Yeah --no, no. Readin' prints and don't make gun. [Intervening voices] No, after. For twenty years, working there. Yeah. After that he worked for Hardington[ph] Richardson[ph]. In the wartime, he start Hardington [ph] Richardson [ph]. They're making guns there and everything. He retired there. He not gonna supposed to retire. But the fact he moved Pittsburgh, and my son said to my husband. He said, "Papa, you worked many years, you were working hard, you're not going no more there, no more. Because it's far away, and I don't want you to get anything." Because, you know, he was sixty-three when my son stop him. He don't work since then. Everything okay.

LEVINE:

What do you feel most proud of that you've done?

VANI:

Proud?

LEVINE:

Yeah.

VANI:

For my children. I raise my children, no language, I don't have anything. Like my children said all the time, "Mother, I'm proud. You don't have language when you send me to school, I learn, I don't bring for any trouble. Now I got nice job and everything, in the air force, teaching, and everything," he said. "I'm happy because you brought me good, you and my mo — my father." So, and I'm proud of the kids, for my daughter and my son. They're nice children. Nice grandchildren, and nice great-grandchildren.

LEVINE:

Really.

VANI:

Yeah. So.

LEVINE:

How did it work out? In the beginning you weren't that thrilled.

VANI:

Yes.

LEVINE:

With your husband, the marriage being . . .

VANI:

Well, happy because we have children, two kids, and everything. But I did, he don't want me to work, that's all. I want to be men in the house, to work and support him. I said, "You're working second shift, I'm work first shift." I start to work nine from two, nine to two. He work three to eleven. So we had the time for the kids, not to leave them alone with somebody else. And it works good after, very good. Yeah.

LEVINE:

And how do you feel about your life now?

VANI:

Very happy, very happy, thanks God I'm very happy. Because we, I am in this country.

LEVINE:

Um, let's see. Is there anything else you can think of that has to do with the fact of being born in Albania and then living most of your life here? Any, any . . .

VANI:

I was so young to know too much from Albania. For me here I was, most of the time in my life was here, and I don't feel that way, you know, for Albania. I feel for the family I have there. I miss the family. You know, I went there five times, six times there. And I'm happy. So.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. You've been back six times.

VANI:

Six times.

LEVINE:

Since 1936?

VANI:

Six times, this time now, not before. No, no, no. Seventeen, eighteen years here, that much, that many years. Not before, no, no, no. I don't go before, because I look for a visa, nobody give it to me. I look and I try, and I try to see my mother and father. Both die. [Sobs] I don't see my father and mother any more. END SIDE A BEGIN SIDE TWO

LEVINE:

Why do you think, what is your interpretation about why the Albanian community stays so close-knit?

VANI:

One thing, when they get out, get out from Albania to come to the United States, they don't have nobody. If they ever, people speak Albanian, they have to be close, because otherwise it's very hard. You have to find somebody to be like your family. That's what I was feeling before, even now. If I see somebody Albanian from a different town and everything I know for so many years, I feel like it's my family. That kind of feeling you have.

LEVINE:

And you were saying earlier that you think it gets passed on?

VANI:

Yes, yes. That's true. Yes. You got it in your mind, and every time we take family or the children or, we talk all the time, for my family and everything. [Not understood] Some day we like to visit Albania. Before they don't want to go. Now they said, "Yes, we'll go to see Albania." But my son is busy teaching in the air force, you know? So he don't have time. The kids in school, so he don't have time. My daughter can't because she have factory work with her husband and everything, so she can't. No time to go.

LEVINE:

Do you think being an immigrant coming to a new country like you did, do you think that made a big difference in the kind of person you became?

VANI:

I feel like I'm born here, because I don't stay too long, and I pick some language, and I go and take paper, American citizen papers. I feel to be American here. So when I went to take papers, you know, papers, American citizen, and they give me a book to learn the book and everything, and they ask me, they don't ask me those questions, they give it to me, the judge. They said to me, "How you like your husband to be our president?" I said, "My husband can't be president because he's Albanian born." And they give me the paper right away. They don't ask any more questions. And I read those papers for days and days and days to ask those questions, I don't have that question. When they ask me that I said to myself, and they said, "Well, you got it now, so you know now. Your children is [Not understood] No, your husband."

LEVINE:

Now, did your husband become a citizen?

VANI:

Oh, yes, long time. That's why they bring me here. How they can bring me ---

VOICE:

You can't. You can't bring your wife if you're not a citizen.

VANI:

You a citizen, year after he came here. He was thirteen years old when he came here.

LEVINE:

I see. So he was a citizen when you came.

VANI:

Yes, yes.

VOICE:

Half, half.

VANI:

Half, half. After I take the good – you have to learn it --- to go to the judge and change you [Intervening voice] and everything.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Was it, how did your husband feel about, about being here? VANI He feel very happy, very happy. He like it here very much, yeah. He used to work here, send money to the family and everything. So. He don't drink, and don't play gamble. He was not here and there. A family man. With the (?) and everything, very happy. Yeah, very happy.

LEVINE:

Okay. Um, I guess that's all I can think of, unless there's something else you want to say.

VANI:

Yeah, well, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

LEVINE:

Well, thank you very much.

VANI:

I appreciate it.

LEVINE:

Yeah. Okay. Well, this is Janet Levine. I've been talking with Phyllis Vani.

VANI:

Right.

LEVINE:

Uh, and, it's August 10, 1993, and I'm signing off.

VANI:

Wonderful.