MATSEN:

This is Elysa Matsen for the National Park Service. Today is Tuesday, the thirteenth of September 1994. And I am in a Jewish home for the aging with Mrs. Gladys Julian. And she came from Australia in, why don't you tell me the year?

JULIAN:

Let's see I was six. I was six —

WINSELBERG:

Nineteen o six you were born —

JULIAN:

Yes. Nineteen o six. I was born in 1900.

MATSEN:

Okay. I'm here with Peter Hom who is doing the recording. And Babette Winselberg —

WINSELBERG:

The niece.

MATSEN:

The niece of Mrs. Julian and Mrs. Julian. Why don't you begin by telling me your full name and your date of birth?

JULIAN:

Gladys R for Rose, What was my name?

WINSELBERG:

[Unclear]

JULIAN:

Cohen, C-O-H-E-N. My father's name.

MATSEN:

Okay. And that was your maiden name?

JULIAN:

Yes, Gladys Cohen, Gladys Rose Cohen.

MATSEN:

And your name now.

JULIAN:

What?

MATSEN:

What's your name now, for the tape?

WINSELBERG:

Julian, Gladys Julian.

JULIAN:

I married a gentleman by the name of Albert Julian, J-U-L-I-A-N. But he died unfortunately recently.

MATSEN:

Okay. What was the name of your town that you came from in Australia?

JULIAN:

Perth. That was the capital, wasn't it, I think. No? It was a big, It was a big city.

MATSEN:

Do you remember? Can you describe it for me? Tell me a little bit about what it was like?

JULIAN:

No, very vague. I remember my father was interested in finding gold. And we lived in the district near the gold mines. Very crude, the house was made out of tin. The Aborigines were only a few miles away. We would hear them with their drums and their musical instruments. And my mother warned, I had four brothers. not to antagonize them, don't throw stones or anything, just pretend you are not, that they're not there. But one brother, aged eight, was a bad boy and he threw a stone. The next thing my mother heard was a thud in this tin house. And it could have killed my brother had he not quickly rushed into the house. But I remember that as young as I was.

MATSEN:

Which brother?

JULIAN:

Louis.

MATSEN:

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

JULIAN:

There were four boys and we were four girls.

MATSEN:

Can you tell me what your father's name —

JULIAN:

Meyer, M-E-Y-E-R, Meyer Cohen.

MATSEN:

Okay. And his occupation.

JULIAN:

He was a jeweler. He made jewelry and he repaired jewelry. Then he got this mania about finding tons of gold and becoming very rich.

MATSEN:

What did he look like?

JULIAN:

He wore a beard, a small beard. That's all I can remember.

MATSEN:

How tall was he?

JULIAN:

Pardon?

MATSEN:

How tall was he?

JULIAN:

He wasn't too tall. I think five seven maybe.

MATSEN:

Okay. What would you say about his personality? What was he like?

JULIAN:

Who?

MATSEN:

Your father.

JULIAN:

Well we were so young at the time. [Scrubbing sound against microphone] The marriage was arranged through my mother's rabbi in a, Meyer Cohen had a store, a shop in Perth, not in Perth —

WINSELBERG:

In Turkey.

JULIAN:

No.

WINSELBERG:

Your father was from Turkey and your mother was from Turkey.

JULIAN:

Yes, but I mean the store was in Australia, wasn't it?

WINSELBERG:

I don't think so.

JULIAN:

No? Well, whatever. He repaired and designed jewelry. His passion was to become a multi-millionaire and find mountains of gold. So he was absent a lot of the time and mother had to struggle. But he jolly well saw to it that she had nine pregnancies. The first child was born dead. She didn't survive. And the other eight did. And I was the oldest of the, Let's see, five youngest. Eddie, Dolly, Ruth, Harry and then me. I was the fifth. And my mother, my father didn't send any money. He was very selfish and didn't care, I'm sure. So mother would teach. She'd teach English to foreigners privately and French to the rich ladies in New York. Do you know New York?

MATSEN:

Yes.

JULIAN:

Ever been down Riverside Drive or Fifth Avenue —

MATSEN:

Now where did your mother learn all of these languages?

JULIAN:

Well, in Constantinople where she was born, besides their mother tongue, they had to learn two languages. That was a must. So mother picked French, which she always liked. And what was the other language? French and English, I guess.

WINSELBERG:

And English and Turkish. She spoke three languages when she came here. That's what she —

JULIAN:

Pardon me?

WINSELBERG:

You told me, I heard it, eight languages.

JULIAN:

Yeah, eight, yeah.

WINSELBERG:

She came with eight children and spoke eight languages. And she was [unclear] —

JULIAN:

And we had to come third class. But when the captain met my mother and he, She helped him to translate for the steerage passengers that spoke other languages. And he promoted us from the third class to the second. And —

MATSEN:

What did your mother look like?

JULIAN:

She was buxom. She had to be, pregnant all those times. She had a, a lovely beatific expression like an angel. And besides her own eight she would help every neighbor to coach the children if they were backward. And she was just an angel. So I was the fifth. So when mother went to teach I had to take over. I, I myself was only about, was I twelve or younger? I had to prepare the supper and do the marketing. And my brothers would come with me with their little wagons to push the vegetables and the meat or whatever. And so —

MATSEN:

What would you eat?

JULIAN:

What?

MATSEN:

What kind of food would you make? Do you remember what you made for supper?

JULIAN:

Well the, the supper was nourishing because it had all the vegetables and meat, meat bones and marrow bones, I remember. And then we would have, I guess, the desert, stewed fruit. We'd call it a compote. I guess that's French. Is it? I think. Anyway, and I had to take care of the five younger ones. And the brother, Edward, who's now a brilliant lawyer in New York, very successful, very rich. I had to take care of him and mother him and be sure that I gave him his bottle of milk and his cereal. I can remember that very distinctly.

MATSEN:

Do you remember your grandparents at all? Did you know your grandparents?

JULIAN:

Yeah. My grandmother took turns living with her different daughters. I think there were five or six. And when she lived with us, of course she spoke Jewish, which we learned. And I think she spoke a little French. She was a, you know, in Europe the Jewish women had to wear wigs. I said to my mother, why. because the first thing a man would notice in a woman would be her hair. And for religious reasons the women all wore wigs. But when they got home they could take them off. And my mother said my grandmother's hair came down to the hem of her skirt. It was so rich and so beautiful. But that goes way back.

MATSEN:

Do you remember what religion was like? Can you tell me a little bit about religion in your family?

JULIAN:

Well you had to have separate dishes for your meat and your milk products. And when Easter came you had to be very strict, no bread, just matzo. And so whenever grandma lived with us she took turns. She'd stay maybe a couple of years with us. And she had five more daughters, I think. So she'd divide the time. And —

MATSEN:

Do you remember any holidays? Can you remember a holiday celebration at any time?

JULIAN:

Well when grandmother lived we'd, she'd say her prayers Friday night, very religious. And mother, my mother did, too. And you had to keep your meat dishes separate from your milk dishes. It's called [Yiddish]. And so while my mother went out to teach I was all of, was I twelve? No, I was younger. I'd take my brothers and we'd do the marketing in heavy patent leather bags, I remember. And I'd peel the vegetables and get the soup going, and the meat in it that was a boiled beef. And I had to reprimand when they, when they had to be, because the boys would go for the jelly. And they wanted those jars of jelly so they could eat all they wanted. And I hid them under the bed but it didn't take long before they found, and then I'd scold. And I'd say, well, I'm going to tell mother when she comes home because it wasn't right. You had no right to do it. So I was gentle but I was strict. I had to be.

MATSEN:

So you were almost a mother to —

JULIAN:

Yeah. And so young to have the responsibility.

MATSEN:

Do you remember.? Did you go to school in Australia before you came to —

JULIAN:

Did I go?

MATSEN:

Did you go to school or were you too young?

JULIAN:

I think I did. I'm trying to, nNo, I was six years old when I came, wasn't I?

MATSEN:

Yes.

JULIAN:

So I couldn't have had too much, Maybe just —

MATSEN:

Right. Do you remember school in the United States?

JULIAN:

Yes.

MATSEN:

Can you tell me a little about school?

JULIAN:

First of all, I don't know why but I was generally chosen president of the class. They liked my English accent, which I cannot drop. I can't say can't. It grates on my ears and my nerves. And I'd help financially by coaching children that were recommended to me to help them with their studies because they were backward. So at an early age I was a small provider. But I got paid I think a dollar or a dollar and a half for a, I don't know, two or three hours till I drummed into their heads what they had to learn. But I liked it. And —

MATSEN:

Do you remember games that you played when you were a child?

JULIAN:

Well, when I was about five or six we played jacks. Do you know what a jack is?

MATSEN:

Um-hmm.

JULIAN:

And I became pretty good at it because with a lot of practice you're fast, very fast. And you could make some money, I think. Whatever was in the ring was yours. And so after school I earned a little money by helping children who were backward. The mothers had heard about me and recommended me. And then I'd have to rush home and do the marketing with the boys while my mother was out teaching. But there was nice cooperation. And if they weren't I got very bossy.

MATSEN:

Now when you decided to come to America who decided to come to America?

JULIAN:

My mother because her sisters and her mother had come to America first. And then when things in Australia were very hard for my mother and that selfish father didn't care how many, how many times he got her pregnant so she had nine. But the first one, the little girl, was born dead. So the eight she raised and gave us a pretty good education. And it was a happy home, always laughter and games. And I was the one that had to bathe the children. We had a big tub in the living room, which we filled with water from the kitchen. I was the one that had to bathe the children in the same water. But I'd get a kettle of fresh water to rinse them. I remember that.

MATSEN:

Do you remember the ship that you came on?

JULIAN:

Yes. The one was the Schinhorst,S-C-H-I-N-H-O-R-S-T. But that didn't go to New York. We had to all get off the boat and change for a ship that came to the New York Harbor.

MATSEN:

And that's where your mother's sisters were, in New York already?

JULIAN:

Yes. She had one brother. He remained in France. He was an officer in the French army. And across the corridor was a gentile girl who also was in the army. And she wanted to marry my uncle. And my grandmother said, no, on no condition unless you convert. So she converted. And when my mother, grandma was sixty years old in New York, in America I mean, the family made a big party for her. So they sent for the son to come. And that was the first time we children had met our uncle. And the wife was converted. And she was a nice person but also in the army. That's about all I can remember.

WINSELBERG:

Was that, was that Uncle Albert?

JULIAN:

What, darling?

WINSELBERG:

Uncle Albert.

JULIAN:

No.

WINSELBERG:

That wasn't Uncle Albert? Was that the doctor?

JULIAN:

No, the doctor was, who married my aunt, that was Robert Sherman.

MATSEN:

And how about your voyage?

JULIAN:

What, darling?

MATSEN:

The voyage. Do you remember being seasick on the boat? Was it sunny or cold or —

JULIAN:

Well, we were very popular because mother spoke so many languages. And she would interpret for the steerage. So because of that they raised our room to a, I think, a, excuse me, a second class, Anyway, it was a promotion for comfort. And I remember —

MATSEN:

Do you remember eating?

JULIAN:

What, darling?

MATSEN:

Do you remember having food, eating on the ship, what you had, where you would go to eat your meals?

JULIAN:

Well, they, I think they had one big dining room with long tables and benches.

MATSEN:

Do you remember what you had to eat?

JULIAN:

Not, not really. Well, vegetables and fruit and a little meat.

MATSEN:

What time of year was it when, when you came?

JULIAN:

When we arrived? It was in the winter, December, I think.

MATSEN:

So it was cold during this trip?

JULIAN:

Oh, when, when we saw snow for the first time and those north winds. And mother's sisters all contributed children's clothing from their children because it was a struggle.

MATSEN:

Do you remember meeting anyone, making friends on the boat? Any other children or —

JULIAN:

No, no. We were five of us ourselves.

MATSEN:

Okay. How long.? How long were you on this trip? JULIAN I think it was eight, Is it possible eight weeks? We had to change because our boat didn't go directly to New York. We had to get off.

MATSEN:

Do you know where you got off?

JULIAN:

In England, I think. I don't know. Is London, it's in, it's not a seaport, is it? No. It's in the interior, isn't it?

MATSEN:

Liverpool maybe.

JULIAN:

In Liverpool, I guess. Anyway —

MATSEN:

Do you remember seeing the Statue of Liberty?

JULIAN:

Well, when my aunt and her husband came from Paris to visit grandma on her sixtieth birthday of course we wanted her to see. And I was the one to take her. And I think I got as far as the thirteenth floor. I couldn't take another step.

MATSEN:

There's lots of steps.

JULIAN:

Oh, very tiring. Have you been there?

MATSEN:

Um-hmm. Do you remember seeing it for the first time when you came into the port of New York?

JULIAN:

From a distance you saw it because the light, I think it was always lit with a red lamp or something at that time. Vaguely —

MATSEN:

I'm not sure at that time but it would have been lit, I think. What do you remember about seeing New York for the first time that you saw New York?

JULIAN:

Well we lived in Brooklyn. And, and they tenement houses. They were apartments. But they were cold flats. You know, no steam heat. We had radiators. I don't think so.

MATSEN:

How about Ellis Island? Do you remember coming to Ellis Island?

JULIAN:

How old was I then? I guess I was six.

MATSEN:

Six years old.

JULIAN:

So I, I'm guessing it's pretty exciting. And I had to be responsible for the younger ones. Mother carried the baby. That's Eddie, the successful New York lawyer, who's a millionaire now. He handles all the big shows. You know the —

MATSEN:

Do you remember what you were wearing when you came?

JULIAN:

What I was wearing?

MATSEN:

Yeah.

JULIAN:

We came in the winter. I think —

MATSEN:

So heavier clothes.

JULIAN:

I don't know where mother got then or they were contributed. I don't remember.

MATSEN:

Okay. How about medical examinations?

JULIAN:

Pardon?

MATSEN:

Do you remember seeing any doctors when you were on Ellis Island?

JULIAN:

Yes. They, Oh, they were strict about, because if you had any sign of a sickness you were deported at once. And our boat didn't go to New York. It went to Liverpool. Isn't Liverpool a port, in England? And then we had to change. Mother had to take the eight of us and change to another boat. I've forgotten the name. I used to remember. Well, you might know, I can't think.

MATSEN:

So medical examinations, did they examine you?

JULIAN:

I think everybody. You had to. If you had any sign of a sickness that was contagious you were deported at once. Oh, very particular.

MATSEN:

Do you remember seeing anything at Ellis Island that sticks in your mind, people —

JULIAN:

Pardon?

MATSEN:

What do you remember seeing when you were at Ellis Island?

JULIAN:

Well, we saw people of all nationalities. And the captain, who was very attracted to my mother, because she would translate the steerage passengers who couldn't speak English and —

MATSEN:

And what was her name, your mother?

JULIAN:

Belina, B-E-L-I-N-A, Belina.

MATSEN:

Did you stay at Ellis Island? Were you detained there for any length of time?

JULIAN:

I think, I think until an uncle came who thought that we would not be a burden financially and that the family would see to it that we had help.

MATSEN:

How long do you think that was? Was it overnight? Did you stay overnight?

JULIAN:

Yeah, a couple of nights, I think.

MATSEN:

Do you remember where you slept?

JULIAN:

Slept?

MATSEN:

Do you remember where you slept at Ellis Island when you stayed there?

JULIAN:

Well my mother had to have a couple of rooms. We were crowded, slept two or three in a bed. And mother took care of the brother who's a lawyer. He was an infant then. And my sister was, the next was two years or age. And the next, I guess, four, the next, five and then I came sixth, and then a brother eight, and another brother nine, and the oldest sister.

MATSEN:

Now, this uncle who came to meet you at Ellis Island, what was his name?

WINSELBERG:

Nina's husband?

JULIAN:

What?

WINSELBERG:

Was he the dentist?

JULIAN:

I don't know, He was, no, a furrier, wasn't he?

WINSELBERG:

[Unclear]

JULIAN:

I've forgotten.

MATSEN:

Just his name I wondered.

JULIAN:

Huh?

MATSEN:

His name? You're not sure what his name was? That's okay. We'll go on. What were your expectations when you came to America? What did you think it would be like? Did you think about that?

JULIAN:

No, you don't have any idea. When you're six years old you know you're not taught in school. Every day was exciting. And I had to be responsible for the four younger.

MATSEN:

Were you scared?

JULIAN:

What, darling?

MATSEN:

Do you remember feeling scared?

JULIAN:

No, never. I was a brazen little thing and I knew I had responsibility and I had to take care of the younger brother, the successful lawyer. And I remember mother had cooked a huge pot of prunes, stewed prunes. And when I came into the room there was a whole tray of — what do you call it —

MATSEN:

Pits.

JULIAN:

Pits. And I had to, Well, I had, Well the toilets were out in the yard. We didn't have modern plumbing. We couldn't afford a, you know, an expensive place. And I remember I had to clean up the mess that he made, all those children. But we laugh about it. Now today he's a millionaire. He's a very outstanding attorney in New York, handles the bigger shows. And he married his secretary who was Catholic who converted to Judaism. And for my grandmother's sake —

MATSEN:

Do you remember your neighborhood where you lived when you first came to New York? Who lived in your neighborhood? Do you remember people?

JULIAN:

Yeah. Tenement houses. They were very, no elevators. You had to walk up steps. So we landed on the ground floor, which is the very first. And then there was a vacancy on the third floor, but you had to walk up all those steps. And my mother was always a little ample. And she did the marketing. And it was a chore to carry two market baskets — they were patent leather, pretty big ones. So my brothers would come down and help. There was wonderful cooperation. But I was the boss. And heaven help them if they disobeyed or they went for the jar of jam. And I said, nothing doing. You can't have more than your share. But we got along. We loved each other and that was important.

MATSEN:

The neighbors that lived around you, do you remember what nationalities —

JULIAN:

Yeah. They were Jewish. And most of them ignorant. And they envied my mother because we children got high marks. And mother said well I'll be glad to coach the children. And they said well we can't afford to pay much. Mother said whatever you can afford will be perfectly all right. And she helped. So with her own eight she took on the responsibility of the children that needed help. That I remember.

MATSEN:

How long did you live there?

JULIAN:

Pardon?

MATSEN:

How long did you live in those tenement houses in New York? Do you remember moving to another area?

JULIAN:

Yes. As soon as we could afford it we moved. Then gradually my mother went, taught English to foreigners. And I think she got a dollar and a half or two dollars a lesson. She was so conscientious. And always envied her because her children, meaning her eight, always got good marks and were head of the class. So —

MATSEN:

Where was your next house that you lived in? Do you remember —

JULIAN:

After that tenement? Yes. We moved to a street that had some expensive brownstone houses. But we didn't live there. We lived around the corner which was a commercial street where the streetcar went. But the exit, or the entrance is on the nice street, Penn Street. I remember the name. And I remember my brother, Eddie, was all of maybe four. I said when my teacher comes by, Eddie, I want you to make a bow and say, good afternoon, Ms. Loman. Well he worked himself so hard that he wetted himself. Then I got frightened. The teacher said, don't worry, Gladys. He'll be all right. He just has to take some deep breaths. So everything was all right. But that's a very vivid picture.

MATSEN:

Now how long did you stay in that area, for a long time?

JULIAN:

I don't remember. No. Pretty soon my mother began to teach and with a little more income, and the boys worked for a florist, the two older brothers, and they got a little income. And then what I got for coaching children. And we managed very nicely.

MATSEN:

How long did you live in New York before you came to California? Was that something you did later in life or —

JULIAN:

How we landed in California? Oh —

WINSELBERG:

You were married for I don't know how many years.

JULIAN:

To Al?

WINSELBERG:

No. When you came to California how, how old were you?

JULIAN:

No. I was just in the first grade. I think I was six.

WINSELBERG:

When you came to California. When you came from New York to California. Remember Aunt Dolly came with John and Uncle John and then you came. Were you in your twenties or your thirties?

JULIAN:

I don't remember. I guess in my thirties.

WINSELBERG:

In your thirties. So you came before the Second World War or after the Second World War?

JULIAN:

During.

WINSELBERG:

That's what I thought.

MATSEN:

So it was during the war. What can you tell me about what it was like to live in America during the war?

WINSELBERG:

Could you get an apartment easy? How was it as far as living?

JULIAN:

We managed. We were a little crowded, you know, because we couldn't afford more than a limited amount. Maybe, There was, My grandmother lived with us at first. And then she moved. And then we, my mother would take the two youngest and have them sleep with her. And I slept with my oldest sister in an alcove off the parlor. And the boys bunked together. We managed. I was the boss. Oh heaven help them if they shirked their duties. They'd get it.

MATSEN:

Now your husband, can you tell me a little bit about him. Did he serve in any of the wars?

JULIAN:

Pardon?

MATSEN:

Your husband did he serve —

JULIAN:

My husband? No, no. Let's see. Was there.? He was a cellist so that was his profession.

MATSEN:

Why don't you tell me a little bit about him. How did you meet him?

JULIAN:

Oh, [unclear]. My oldest sister worked for a secretary. She was very capable. For the president and the vice-president of AT&T, American Telephone and Telephone Company. And my husband, he wasn't my husband then. His cousin was a secretary also. And it was her birthday. So my husband invited her and me to go the Russian Tearoom for lunch. First he kissed her and then I very softly said, where's my kiss. He said, never mind young lady. You'll get plenty. And sure enough we had a very happy life. Except that unfortunately, he, he had a heart attack and he died from that. Then I was widowed. And I never remarried. But —

MATSEN:

Children, do you have any children?

JULIAN:

No. My husband said the world is over populated, why add? And I don't want you to have to go through it. So my sister, who is a little younger than I, had a sudden surgery. What do they call that? There's a medical name for it. And I adored children. So I would get all my neighbor's children, and sing with them and teach them how to do little dances and how to play a game.

MATSEN:

What game was that?

JULIAN:

You made a circle and divided it into sections and made it ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty, seventy, eighty, and a hundred was the center. And you'd blindfold them and they'd say tic, tac, toe, round I go, if I miss I go in this. And then we moved the thing. And I had to keep a record. And the child that had the most would get an extra piece of cake or some little nibble, you know, chocolate.

MATSEN:

These are neighborhood children?

JULIAN:

Pardon?

MATSEN:

These are neighborhood children who live near you?

JULIAN:

Oh, I adored them and they adored me. If they were mine I couldn't have loved them more and they couldn't have loved me. They'd rather be in our house with me and my sister, Ruth, than to stay in their own with our little games and what they called it, not Victrola. Where the children have, you know, they look through this kaleidoscope I think. So then I, my sister and I would volunteer to go to the children's hospital. And we got permission to talk to the children, to sing to them and tell them stories. We loved that. I remember that.

MATSEN:

Are you happy that you came to America?

JULIAN:

Yes. Well it was exciting. And we knew it would be a different life. And my mother would see her sisters. They had all come. And grandma. So we looked forward to it and we liked it.

MATSEN:

So your mother was happy too?

JULIAN:

Very. And then with knowing so many languages that's how she earned a living. She taught French to the elegant ladies on Fifth Avenue. Do you know New York?

MATSEN:

Yes.

JULIAN:

On Riverside Drive. And English to foreigners. I think she got a dollar and a half a lesson, very little.

MATSEN:

Can you tell me a little bit about her background? How did she get to Australia? Why was she living in Australia?

JULIAN:

Well I —

MATSEN:

She was from Europe.

JULIAN:

Oh, well in Constantinople, my father had a jewelry store where he made jewelry and repaired. And my mother's father was a rabbi. And he thought, well, that would make a good match for my Belina because the man had a profession. And that's how he became our father.

MATSEN:

That's how, Now how did they move to Australia? Why did they move there?

JULIAN:

Let's see.

WINSELBERG:

Did they just get married and then move to Australia? Or how long were they in —

JULIAN:

I wish I could remember.

WINSELBERG:

[Unclear] sisters born in Turkey?

JULIAN:

What, darling?

WINSELBERG:

Were any of your sisters or brothers born in Turkey?

JULIAN:

No. Just Leon.

WINSELBERG:

[Unclear]

JULIAN:

And the one uncle. He was born in France. My grandmother had one son in the French army and six daughters, I think, my mother being one. And but that's father was my oldest brother, wasn't he?

MATSEN:

What was his name?

JULIAN:

My oldest brother. What dear?

MATSEN:

What was his name?

JULIAN:

Maurice. French. M-A-U-R-I-C-E. He was a good tennis player. And what else did he do? Tennis and ice skating. There was a high school, girls' high school, where we lived in Brooklyn. And in late summer they had vacation. So my brothers would lease the, their tennis court and made a commercial thing out of it. And we all worked very hard. I was cashier certain hours and the others took turns. And in the winter we found a man from Norway or Sweden or didn't mind the cold. He was used to it. And he'd stand outside all night and flood the tennis courts. The nets were taken away. And that's how they made some money, a little income. And I'd be the cashier till ten o'clock. And then my mother made them send me home because, you know, I had to go to school the next day. But we all got along beautifully.

MATSEN:

It sounds like it.

JULIAN:

Are you one of many in your family?

MATSEN:

My family? No we —

JULIAN:

An only child?

MATSEN:

We have a very small family.

JULIAN:

What?

MATSEN:

Only one sister, one sister. Well, Mrs. Julian, I want to thank you for doing this interview with me.

JULIAN:

Did I give you enough information?

MATSEN:

Yes, oh yes, you did.

JULIAN:

I wonder in your records, Years ago here I was interviewed for the, the paper, the class, school paper. And they published what I told them. But not, not in as much detail as I'm telling you.

MATSEN:

Right. This is Elysa Matsen signing off for the Ellis Island Oral History project. It is the thirteenth of September 1994, a Tuesday. And we are in California. Thank you very much, Mrs. Julian.

JULIAN:

You're welcome. I'm very pleased to do it.