LEVINE:

Today is June 13 th , 1996, and I am here with Mr. and Mrs. Agostino. I have just interviewed Andy [sic] Agostino, and now I'm interviewing Arthur Agostino, who came from the same place in the Italy, Groteria, Reggio Calabria, and he came in 1953 when he was twenty-six years old and was married by then to Angie. Okay, and the time of this Mr. Agostino is seventy years of age, and this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service. Okay, if we can start. Again, if you'd say where you were born and your birth date.

AGOSTINO:

Well — [Clears Throat] Excuse me. I was born in Groteria February 18, 1926.

LEVINE:

And you stayed there up until the time you were twenty-six?

AGOSTINO:

No. [Knocking]

LEVINE:

Wait, we're pausing here. [tape off/on] Okay, we're resuming after taking an order for something to drink. [Laughs] Okay. So you were in Groteria up until you —

AGOSTINO:

I was — I was in Groteria until World War II. See, that I stayed home, which I went to grammar school. That's the best thing you can get, unless you have money. You no got money, forget it. The book's closed. Finished grammar school [unclear] was from the first to the fifth grade then. I don't know today. I'm here forty-three years, so I don't know what's is going on.

LEVINE:

Well, before we talk about —

AGOSTINO:

Forty-four. Forty-three, yeah.

LEVINE:

Yeah, before we talk about the war, maybe we'll talk about your earlier life before that.

AGOSTINO:

That's all right.

LEVINE:

Okay?

AGOSTINO:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

So you went to school to fifth grade.

AGOSTINO:

That's right.

LEVINE:

And — well, let's talk about, what was your father's name?

AGOSTINO:

My father's name is Salvadore.

LEVINE:

And your mother's name?

AGOSTINO:

Elizabeth.

LEVINE:

And Elizabeth, what was her maiden name?

AGOSTINO:

Macre, M-A-C-R-E.

LEVINE:

And did you have brothers and sisters?

AGOSTINO:

Yes, I have four sister, one brother. My older sister is Vincenza. The second one is Vera, which she's in the United State. The third one is Maria. The fourth one is Permida [PH] and my brother, it's Pasquale. He's in United States, too. He's in San Diego.

LEVINE:

And where do you fit in? Which ones were you —

AGOSTINO:

I'm number three.

LEVINE:

Number three, okay. [Laughs]

AGOSTINO:

Number three. See, my mother was matched, two girl and one boy, two girl and one boy.

LEVINE:

I see. Well, now, when you finished fifth grade, you stopped school, what did you do? Did you have a trade?

AGOSTINO:

Well, it's a custom over there to go trade. Even when you go to school. Used to be. Today, I don't know anything about. Anybody trade will learn something to become men, to become family man some day. In that time we no wait for the age. I chose the tailor shop. It's all customer made tailor suit and I start a very young boy, until like I said, young teenager when World War II. You have no place to go. You can't go anywhere. Because the worst thing you can't go in the city or any place. After World War II and then I started to go in the bigger city to do work and make a living.

LEVINE:

When you — when you decided on the tailor trade, what did you do? How did you learn it? Were did you —

AGOSTINO:

Well, they start at the beginning, from A to Z.

LEVINE:

Did you like — were you with a particular person?

AGOSTINO:

Yes.

LEVINE:

As a tailor?

AGOSTINO:

Yes, apprenticed. He was a regular tailor, yes.

LEVINE:

Do you remember the name of the —

AGOSTINO:

Yes, the first one was — oh, Dominic Juror.

LEVINE:

Okay, we're pausing here. [tape off/on] We're resuming here. Okay, you talked about the name of the person you apprenticed to first.

AGOSTINO:

That's where I started first. First it was for short time and then after World War II, when everything started to go back no normal, same normal, I started to work in Reggio, Calabria on the city with a — with a man — with a man with a sister maked her, her, my wife's wedding dress, and I learned a lot with him. I learned with him to work for man, women and children because he was original his shop was Rome, and because of the war, too, we come home. And then I was like, I say, my wife used to call me a gypsy, my mother. I never stay in one place. I was ambitioned to work in different places.

LEVINE:

Why did you want to do that?

AGOSTINO:

To learn more.

LEVINE:

What was the name of the man who made your wife's wedding dress?

AGOSTINO:

The sister made the dress. The man what I worked to was Dominic, too. Dominic Gentile, what a nice guy. He was a wonderful guy. Matter of fact, she met him 1978, when we went together, '78. Then I worked, like I said, lot of places, like Messina. That's the most. By 1940 — I think it was 1945 — '45, '46, I don't remember. I think '45, I went to work in Naples. The end of '44, '45 work in Naple, Italy.

LEVINE:

Also tailor?

AGOSTINO:

Yes, all the time a tailor, and I work with the same guy I started home. It's funny, then come October I supposed to go in the army and I have to go for physical checkup and because my father did a lot of service, they give me the leave. So I don't have — I don't have to go in the service.

LEVINE:

Oh, so —

AGOSTINO:

I was released from duty, but I presented to the military district and I was released and for reservation, they call me any time they want.

LEVINE:

I see, so you — that — is that — is that typical or was that like a special favor?

AGOSTINO:

No, this is typical. No, no, it's not special favor. No, no. It was the law. It was a right.

LEVINE:

Because your father had served for a while.

AGOSTINO:

He had served so many years and I was the lone son. On that time, but then, you know, after the war, you don't need too many either. After the war, you didn't need too many, but over there, the obligation was for everybody. No — no — no favor to nobody.

LEVINE:

Well, now, when you were growing up, what was your father doing? When you were —

AGOSTINO:

Well, my father was, he have a barber shop, and my mother have a tailor shop. Her own tailor shop.

LEVINE:

Oh, so you —

AGOSTINO:

But I never learned with my mother. She never let me. No, my mother — my sister is the old tailor and me, and no one we work together because my mother say, "I don't want no boss." We went to different places to learn. That's the only way you learn it because, you know, when you work for your own mother, your own father, you become a big will.

LEVINE:

Well, did you — did you think you got the idea of being a tailor from watching your mother?

AGOSTINO:

No. I hate the barber shop. I don't want to work with my father. I no like it, but it's destiny in your life. But I chose better the tailor shop because when my brother-law, he used to work for this guy and he was pushing me to go there, that's come out to be a tailor. It was one of the trade which I like the most, I got to say the truth.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm, uh-hmm. Now, what do you remember when you were a little boy? Do you remember any activities?

AGOSTINO:

Oh, yes. We used to do a lot of activity with the school, grammar school. Like I say, no money, you can't go to school. You no have it. By the first [unclear] you got to go by the law, if you like or not. You have to go.

LEVINE:

Well, now, what — did it cost money? In other words, like tuition to go to school or [unclear]?

AGOSTINO:

Ah, when you got to start going to superior school after the grammar school, yes. Tuition. Matter of fact, I used to a wonderful voice, but no money to go in the conservatory of music. So the voice doesn't mean anything to me.

LEVINE:

How — when did you first start singing? How did you —

AGOSTINO:

As a baby. When I was young boy in the church.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

AGOSTINO:

Yeah, I was sing all my life. I no remember to stop singing. I sing now in the shop.

LEVINE:

Oh.

AGOSTINO:

And the girl said to me, "When do you ever stop?" When I die. [Laughs] No, that's come with you. You born with that. Oh, no, you were born with that.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Yeah. How else would you —

AGOSTINO:

But you got to go to school to develop the voice several words unclear] Like I say, no money, forget it. It's over.

LEVINE:

How would you describe yourself, like as a boy growing up? You — you had a good voice. What other things —

AGOSTINO:

Oh, yeah, typical boy. Typical boy. We used to play a lot. We used to do a lot of activity with the — with the school and with the Catholic Youth to help other less fortune. Because poverty, no matter where you go, is number one. We used to do some play. Kid stuff, you know, with the grammar school, what you can do. We used to do a lot of play and the money what they make was to pay for somebody who can't buy the thing for the school, pay for thing like that. Because in that time you have to buy supplies, your own paper. You supply your own ink. The school give you the room, [unclear] and the bench. Three for each bench. You better respect that. Give you three, one, two and three. You can't watch one or the other. You do, or you in trouble. Now, God bless, everything is change all over the world. Now, I'm sure they got to go all the way up in they school. They have to. They got to because now without the school, you don't go anywhere.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm, what about the church? Was the church — did the church play a big part in your family life, too?

AGOSTINO:

Oh, yes, was number one. My mother was very active in the church. My father, my sister. My mother was one to sing in the church, too. So the choir, yeah. Oh, yeah. That's I say a family tradition.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

AGOSTINO:

The one — the only one who didn't want anything to do with sing was my father. He never [unclear].

LEVINE:

He didn't want to.

AGOSTINO:

Well, he no have it.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. What about musical instruments, was there anything —

AGOSTINO:

No, I never play musical instrument. My brother did. I didn't. See, here we are because then there was — he like, I like, too, but because I have a voice and I know I couldn't develop, I was mad with myself. I couldn't blame anybody because I still have a wonderful life [unclear]. I know I never miss anything. I no have what she have because she have everything, but I have a good thing, too. The most thing I have a wonderful grandmother and father and grandparent. Grandfather only one because one die before my mother got married.

LEVINE:

What about the grandfather you remember? What do you remember about him?

AGOSTINO:

I remember he was a hardworking farm, all the way up in the mountain. He was do same thing which his father was doing. He used to go get his — he used to go to his farm and do the thing in the summer for the winter. He would do any kind of vegetable. Would grow any kind of vegetable.

LEVINE:

Was this your father's —

AGOSTINO:

My father's father.

LEVINE:

Father.

AGOSTINO:

Yeah. Oh, my mother's father never, because he — he died when he was, like I said, before my mother was married. She was still a young teenager.

LEVINE:

I see. Did you ever go see your grandfather? Do you remember being —

AGOSTINO:

Oh, yeah, I used to go over there every day.

LEVINE:

With your grandfather?

AGOSTINO:

I used to go over there every day. I used to [unclear] when the [unclear] coming. Always go over there for get something for the [unclear]. No, he was [unclear]. I was — was a nice guy.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

AGOSTINO:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

How about grandmothers, any —

AGOSTINO:

Forget it, the grandmother both spoil me. One of my grandmother, when it was eleven o'clock in the morning, she was a knock on the door like this. [makes knocking sound] And the school teacher said, "Arthur, that's your grandmother. She got something for you." She always bring me a little lunch or fruit. Oh, yeah, that — that was — they really spoiled. I remember.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

AGOSTINO:

They would die with me, both. See, one she died [unclear] when I was over here in this country. The other one, she died in Italy. She never met. She no remember she was there, but she never met because she — World War II, she was — the thing, she got a stroke from the right side. She was paralyzed for half a person and my father was in the army, and she said, "I no gunna die until my son come back home." My God, she — my father didn't come home October 13, I think. In the middle October, 1943, and she died three or four days later. [unclear] for the son. She did. See, that's why, see destiny in life, nobody can change it. Like to me, to be in this country, what I can do two things this country. I no got no [unclear]. I don't got nothing. The only thing what I got in this country to give to this country, my heart because I appreciate what I have and what God give to me over here. God bless America. I can't say anymore. America really — if you open my heart, America's over here. It's right over there. I mean it, because it was a dream of my life, you see, now go back when I was a young boy. That was the dream of my life.

LEVINE:

What did you know about America? Who told you about it?

AGOSTINO:

Well, a lot of thing you know about the school, they tell them, because, see, the grammar school over there, you got to learn a lot because you no going to make it in high school if you don't have it. And then when you go in the high school or superior school like that, then you learn a lot. That's a different ballgame. But in the grammar school we used to know a little geography, history and then you talk about the Statue of Liberty. I longer can remember — I still remember the Statue of Liberty. I no remember how I started, and I talk about it when I was five, six, seven years old. It's gone. Then when I — like I say, before when I went in New York and I see the Statue of Liberty, for me was the miracle. It was that flame come right into my body. That flame really touched me. I started crying. Matter of fact, there was one of the boy, he come to see us in the airport — on the — the — the ship, and when we got out, he say, "Arthur, what do you think?" I never meeted him. I know the family over there, and he said to me, "Arthur, what do you think?" I said, "God bless that statue over there." I dream and I see it. I hope some day I go back over there to touch it.

LEVINE:

Wow.

AGOSTINO:

I got to go. Before I die, I got to go.

LEVINE:

Okay.

AGOSTINO:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

So, anything else about when you were a little boy? Anything that you remember —

AGOSTINO:

Yeah, we —

LEVINE:

When you think about your boyhood.

AGOSTINO:

Yeah, we used to go a lot on the farm with a friend. Even when we no have no farm, we used to go a lot on the weekend. We used to play soccer. That was my favorite sport. I used to play a lot with the kids, but the--here we are, when you're on the small village, you can get the — you can get the most big branch of [unclear] when you no have the — you no have the material do develop this thing. You don't have the financial to develop this. You are nothing. So that's why we all learn to become barber, shoemaker, tailor, thing like — we all have a trade over there. Many [unclear] even the kids, when they came to no more to go to college, when they was no more in grammar school, they still went some place to be apprenticed somehow. But you never know what tomorrow's [unclear] was. We don't know. You got to be prepare. Boy, I was prepare right, thanks God.

LEVINE:

Do you think that was part of why you wanted to travel, so you could just be more and more prepared?

AGOSTINO:

I — to travel, I like I can explain better. That was part because I know is some place in the world it was better living, especially USA. That's out of the question. Forget it. I don't care what happened anywhere, America still America, and that's number one. Because America no how the way to get help everybody else in the world, and they do it. We really do and then what? What I did before when I was here? They do now, they going to do tomorrow, and that's why maybe the worst living. Believe me, thanks America. God bless America. And anybody who have the owner to put a foot in this country, to visit or to stay, they should have said, "Thanks God," to be here and to see what's really is. That's why that was my mission when I was a little, tiny boy.

LEVINE:

Do you think that because you immigrated here you — you feel more strongly about-

AGOSTINO:

No.

LEVINE:

This country?

AGOSTINO:

I feel strong about this country because my root, some of my root was over here, too. I have my mother's sister over here. She passed two years ago away next month. I have my father's sister. No, my — no, I'm sorry. My mother's sister and my mother's brother. Both my grandfather, they was in this country before World War I.

LEVINE:

Oh.

AGOSTINO:

So I have a root over here but you couldn't remember.

LEVINE:

So did your — did your grandfather tell you stories about America?

AGOSTINO:

The one that was living, yes. He told me — he wasn't — I think he was the one that was in South America first, and he told me lot of story. And he said to me, "America today what it here, it's not like yesterday. Today they've got a better living. They got a better everything because America they know how they got to do it." Yeah, he told me all of this thing. He told — he told me many things, a lot of things. He told me he was working Cambridge with Oliver. He was working Somerville. Arlington he work in the farm with my other grandfather, your father. That's before World War I. Then they come home and that's it.

LEVINE:

Oh. So —

AGOSTINO:

Matter fact, one--my mother's father have to go back home because he got hurt over here and he want to go die where the kids was.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

AGOSTINO:

My uncle bring him back home, but we talk about now they come over here, you know. But he know he have to die anyway, because he break something, I don't know. That something I hear from my mother, my aunt over here.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Well, now, when World War II broke out, how did that affect you? What happened in your life?

AGOSTINO:

Affect me — affect me very serious because no only have a lot of friend, but they — they come over here in between 1935 and '38. When — even '39, I think. But when World War II broke out, all my family was crying because don't forget, I have blood over here. I have a cousin over here, first cousin. Aunt, uncle. You have a root over here. You've got a root over there. Where you going to be? You get stuck? Blood here, blood there. You don't want to see any fight. We was very sad. A lot of family was very sad over there because in my heart, I judge that for myself. What I hear from my mother, my father. In my heart, I don't think Italy want to be ever against the United State. Never, in my judgment. Maybe I make a mistake because I'm human being, but the thing happen in life, you got to take the consequence, right or wrong. You got to play the ball, that's it.

LEVINE:

Right. So what happened then? Did you get drafted into the —

AGOSTINO:

No, I miss. I was lucky. My age. I was very lucky because see, if I was drafted, no way how much years my father did. World War I, World War II. Don't make any difference. It's what happened to me because when in 1943, I think September, they sign Armistice Day, then was General Eisenhower with Italy. I think I remember. I think it was September, if I don't make a mistake. I could make a mistake. Like I said before, I say I don't want to remember. I just want to forget because I remember [unclear] ship, they would fire the gun in the ocean because my hometown is close to the ocean. Eleven kilometer and one day I remember — oh, my God, it was August, 1940, I think. Lot of ship come out from nowhere. English, French, Italian and they was fight each other like a dog. Right across, they go by right in the ocean where I was born, near where I was born and we was on the beach. I think it was August, if I don't make a mistake. I know it was very hot summer, and when you remember this picture, and then you see the plane come and drop the bomb, and see body near you, front of you, that's, you no like it. That's why I want to put them in the back furnace. I don't want to remember this. The kids, once in a while they interview me for the school. I answer. You got no choice. You go to tell a piece of history, and you got know. You got to tell the kids what you know. But thanks God, I remember, you know, we didn't have bread to eat because you can't produce anything, and everything was with the stamps. How you can raise with the stamp a family? I remember my poor mother, when she had a loaf of bread, that was cutted, pieces, and say one piece to share for the youngest. That was my mother because my father was in the army. I remember a lot of these thing, it's a — but things good. Come out with a victory, understood life.

LEVINE:

And do you remember when the war was over?

AGOSTINO:

Yes, I do remember.

LEVINE:

What happened around [unclear]?

AGOSTINO:

Oh, they went from Reggio, Calabria, the Italian people, they went on the ship over there because they come from Sicily. The [unclear], men and women. That remember. I see it with my very eyes. Say, "Come in. We are ready for you." And then he — then after the Armistice was signed, Italy — Italy work the American army very, very well. They really — we really did. But it's like I say, you know how many million people, Italian people over here? Lot. How you can fight your own blood? You have to do it. You got no choice, but you can't do it. It's hard, you can't do it. That's why I told my kids, I like a die before I see another war. I really do. I know what I suffer. Nothing happened to me personally. I even was fortunate. My brother-in-law come back. My father come back. I lost a lot of friends, older than me, in World War II, but now answer the question, still you want to be in this [unclear]. Either way, I don't care which way they are, still blood, which we lose sometimes unnecessary. But you got to play the game. And thanks God went over.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

AGOSTINO:

And then we start — started work in the city.

LEVINE:

This was in Naples?

AGOSTINO:

No.

LEVINE:

No.

AGOSTINO:

That was Rome that time.

LEVINE:

Okay.

AGOSTINO:

Oh, the World War II was Rome, and I was allowed to guard the door. My mother let me get out of there? Ah, [unclear]. No, and you can't stay in the city because the city was danger for air strike, ship strike. Everything was danger, so it was — and then when, after World War II, I think when World War II finished '46, [unclear] Germany. Now, with Italy was all over. Was all over because many [unclear] American. On the other side, you remember I'm sure to history, Monte Casino. That was a disaster over there. That was real bad over there, but I don't know nothing about that. What I hear in this history. I was Rome. Thanks God I was Rome. My father was in north Italy. He was [unclear].

LEVINE:

So you were working — after the war you were in Calabria? [unclear]

AGOSTINO:

Yes, and then after war, way '44-45, I started going Straniera there, Messina, Sicily. Then I went to Naple. Then there was one time I went to work with American army. I was civilian. That I believe was April, '45. That was the best time in my life.

LEVINE:

What were you doing? You were —

AGOSTINO:

Civilian. We was — they was — there we have a war. [unclear] we was [unclear]. They was tried to help us. You know what I mean? They did. They help us lot, and was go to work in the morning, get out in the night. Get paid.

LEVINE:

What — were you doing tailor? Were you —

AGOSTINO:

No. I was work as a civilian with they have some come construction. They have some come, you know, with the lumber. Help them, but it was going along really well.

LEVINE:

So did you — did you have contact then with American soldiers?

AGOSTINO:

Oh, yeah. I was with them. Matter fact, I was when it was in April 1945 when I make a mistake. Maybe you correct me, when the President — when President Roosevelt died.

LEVINE:

Oh.

AGOSTINO:

That was in '45?

LEVINE:

I think so.

AGOSTINO:

I think it was in April. I could make a mistake and I remember was work with them, and when I was with them, I said to them in Italian, "A very good man gone. I hope they got a next one just like him or close to him." See, I remember because — well, you hear a lot about this. The men that worked with them, you hear a lot. Too bad I don't took the address from somebody from New York, some soldier, American soldier from New York. There was some from here, Massachusetts, and I never dream I come over here. I was dreaming to come. I never dream I will be here.

LEVINE:

Well, when you had this contact with these soldiers, did — did you get more of an idea about America?

AGOSTINO:

Oh, yeah.

LEVINE:

[unclear]

AGOSTINO:

Oh, my idea was there then. My idea was there all the time. My — my dream to be in America some day, it never stop. Never. I'm dreaming today and I'm here. See, that's amazing.

LEVINE:

[Chuckles] Yeah, right.

AGOSTINO:

Amazing. Sometime I tell my wife, "Am I real here?" and I'm here.

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. So then how did you happen to be back in Groteria when your wife came —

AGOSTINO:

Well, that's the story.

LEVINE:

Okay.

AGOSTINO:

Well, last few years where she come in, I was sick a tired of the city. I say, "I better go home and stay a few years with my mother before," and I think lasted two and a half, three years. I worked for him. I was work for somebody else, which you happen — it's my brother-in-law. I work with him which he was very good. Matter fact, he died over here in Arlington. He come in after him, and I work for him for years, and then when she come in, I was home. Maybe the destiny bring me back home. I used to go ever ten months, nine months, see my mother, my sister, and then that lasted, I think two, two and a half years I was over there and I said to myself, "I better have couple years of rest." I was sick and tired of big city. Let me stay home again, which I was working. All the time I work as a tailor.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm.

AGOSTINO:

But in the big city is a better life. You see more. You see lot of [unclear]. You take — you go Milano, they call New York of Italy. Milano they call New York of Italy. See, the big city's like over here. For me, when I come over here, go in Boston or New York or go anywhere, it doesn't make no difference because I know almost all over there. [unclear] stay few months to work, I know them all. So it don't make no difference to me.

LEVINE:

Uh-hmm. So had you sent your picture purposely —

AGOSTINO:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

For your wife to pick out?

AGOSTINO:

Well, one of the other sister hers, Jenny, come over there. I talk to Jenny, say, "You tell Angie what I have in my mind," and she said to me, "Arthur, I not tell anything." She was very honest. She not going to comment because I even going to pay the trip to come with me, and she refuse it.

ANGELA:

I wasn't going to go.

AGOSTINO:

She didn't want to go. That's why I say believe in the destiny. Then what happen tomorrow be for the better, but the destiny has got a long play in their life. I don't care. That's the truth. Happen to me. I got a [unclear] or not, and they — and she say no, and then I sent her the picture. She never got it. That's a — that's immaterial. I don't care anyway.

LEVINE:

But did you remember her from when you growing?

AGOSTINO:

Yes, I do remember her. I remember many fact. When she was get out of school, I was with another sister. We have a few. The men we have a few teachers becomes sometimes substitute, you know, thing like that. But she was lucky. She was with one all the time, and on that particular time, we used to go help them, the two sister and they was teaching in the same house downstairs. They have a room school, a [unclear] school, and they — we was go there and I was keep an eye on her because she have to go through my mother's house to go into her house. She have to go over there, and once in awhile, I was [unclear] because my mother [unclear]. Says, "Leave my daughter alone." When I come over here in Arlington, when she come in in Boston, pick me up, say, "Ma?" Says, "Yes, I'm here." Says, "Go ahead, make me in pieces." [unclear] Now, you say, you remember? Sure I remember. [unclear]. "Oh, no, no, you got to enjoy your wife," you know, she said to me. She was a wife woman. I loved that woman. I really do. But I was — I was a — she no remember because she was one remember too many. I was one remember her. She's different. See, if I go over there now, [unclear] three or four percent of my age there, give or take, more or less, but if I go over there now, which it happen to be 1978, [unclear], I was feel like a stranger. Place what I was until twenty-six to me was a strange place because even you go in the city over there, you still home. [unclear] a few hour, you know what I mean? It's no big deal. You want to see the family, it's no big deal. No like today, today there in a few minutes.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

AGOSTINO:

Yeah, you just fly. One hour from north to south, [unclear] an hour and a half. But it's her, I remember her and I have something in my heart for all the time, but I never dream that we accomplish. Now, when I decides, I have an eye for her. When I find out she come for somebody else, I was a little sad. I didn't say anything to nobody and my mother know. That's why I never told anything to my mother, she would bother the — bother the poor girl every day. I never know anything about. But — END OF SIDE A BEGIN SIDE B

LEVINE:

--your mother knew.

AGOSTINO:

My mother knew I love her. She was, what I call it? That time you can't call it love because she [unclear] there, but she was a special [unclear] in my heart. That's why I never — I never wanted to bother nobody over there. I never wanted to bother.

LEVINE:

So did you ever talk it over with your mother?

AGOSTINO:

No. Many time my mother said to me — we was talk about the family. Her family, my family and I — because she happened to be my age. She was born in December. I was born in February before. So I remember her very well. She remember — she remember me one thing, the name. She remember the name, but she can't picture. She couldn't picture.

ANGELA:

[unclear]

AGOSTINO:

Yeah, she couldn't picture. Then the memory come back to her. But thanks God, see, today —

ANGELA:

[unclear] played.

AGOSTINO:

Huh?

ANGELA:

Never did I played around.

AGOSTINO:

No, you never played. You never — you was completely neutral. You never — you never even dream it. Even if it was something in my heart or in my mind, you no dream it because I never told anybody. My mother have a little inch you know, because I — she knew I like her when she was a baby. That's some time, it's a baby. Baby [unclear] plays [unclear]. [Laughs]

LEVINE:

So — so after when you — when you rode by on the bicycle, then what? You went — you went to visit?

AGOSTINO:

Well, see, that's a really very strange thing happened in that time. I was up in the mountain. I was singing. That was my life. We used to make a lot of serenade, even in the evening. Even before I got married, I was [unclear]. She say she never hear nothing.

ANGELA:

I used to go to sleep.

AGOSTINO:

She used to go to sleep, but the niece, they know it was me with the — with the — with the — with the rest of the club. But we used to be a real good clean boys together. We never was in trouble. We avoid trouble because many times somebody ask me, here's how it feel to be United State citizen. I said, "Very great." They say, "Why?" He said, "You Italian?" "Yeah, I'm Italian. I was born in Italy. I'm Italian American. I'm in America now." She say, "Remember" — I told him [unclear], but that's when I come from Italy. After that, the citizen paper, they were testing me because I got it in two years because she was already citizen. So I didn't have to wait five, and the first thing I wanted to — the first thing in my life I wanted there — thanks God I now have it — the best thing I remember they would told me is be United State citizen, how I feel it. I say, "Look, I can't forget where I was born. I got a family over there. Mother, father, sister, but I never" — no me. I talk in general. Nobody can be — forget about United State or Italy or anybody, nobody can be any good citizen, wherever you establish your life, your residence, unless they have been a good citizen where he was born. See, if I was — not was good over there, I'm not sure I'm going to be good over here. But I was good over there, I will be good over here, and that's what I call citizenship. Wherever you go, respect that flag. It's your flag. When you sign that piece of paper, before you got citizen paper, when you sign the piece of paper the immigration and you say "You pledge allegiance," which I did. We have to repeat what they said, because I don't even know one word. You repeat what they say in the consulate when they give you the visa, before they give you the visa. Can't remember. Forty-four years go by. You know, it's a dream, and matter fact, forty-four years go by, yeah. No, will be November, when I went for the — for the visa, yes. And the — and we have to — we have to pledge allegiance. When you do that, I don't care which you language you do it, you must know what you did because you [unclear]. Your heart should bear — should be where you did, and then God bless, God give me four wonderful children. He gave me excellent wife. She went to have the honor to go to school over here, which I didn't. I have to support the family. I don't know, I speak broken English, but I do my best. But I have to work in two or three jobs, and many nights I was work for the kids making suit and everything. You remember? [unclear].

LEVINE:

Uh-huh. Well, you must have been happy then when you — you realized that —

AGOSTINO:

Oh, very happy.

LEVINE:

The woman you wanted to marry, [unclear].

AGOSTINO:

That's right. Yes, I was very happy, not because I come over here only. Because it was the woman of my dream, and I know I met her. I know the root of the family and that's what I wanted in my life, more than anything in the world. If somebody was coming to me with a millions dollar, I say, "[unclear]." Say, "Forget about the dollar. Forget about the treasure. That's the treasure." [unclear] woman is the treasure, but you got to work together. You got to get the good day, you got to take the bad one. My believe me, the bad one is a — a minor thing because the good days a lot. I go home, the kids are going to call me. And what — what's better than that? At least somebody think about you. I wish everybody in the world was happy like me and my wife. But I still say, I never stopped God bless this country and God bless America.

LEVINE:

Well, what was it like for you when — when left? You —

AGOSTINO:

Well, when I left, I know I left part my heart over there. You leave a mother and father and you leave a sister and brother. For it was not too hard because I have been — even I was in Italy in the city working, in different places, which few hour away, you still away from home. You still got to support yourself. For me was fifty-fifty, but when you take the boat, you in the ocean. You see blue sky, whatever it is and blue water, then you know what you left behind. On the other hand, you hope some day you will see them again. That time was hard. I told my mother, said, "Ma, I no going to promise you nothing, my in ten years I will come back to see you." It was no true. Good thing she leave with my father. I see her after, almost twenty years. Yeah. 1953 to 1972, almost to there, and then thanks God, when I went, she couldn't come in because her mother passed away a month before.

ANGELA:

[unclear]

AGOSTINO:

A month. I went the end of June, she passed away —

ANGELA:

The first.

AGOSTINO:

June 1 st . My took one of my daughter, my second daughter, my son and my niece. You make [unclear] with three — no two teenager, one eleven years old. Oh, boy, my hand was full. [Chuckles] Yeah, well, you got to show everything. My hand was full and then I was translating, one time I lost my voice and — but it was a pleasure. Yes. The kids learned a lot. They still remember grandma, grandpa. Lot of friends where they left behind. Yeah, they still do it. Then my mother said to me, "Another twenty years?" She was sad that she no see my wife and the other two kids. I said, "Ma, no way in the world, I can't afford it, to come over here all together." No money. "Oh, no, my God," I no say that. She said to me, poor woman, she said "I want to see your wife very bad." Said, "You will." "Another twenty years, I no be here," she said, "No." Thanks God I went over there in six years. Yes, I did.

LEVINE:

So she saw your wife.

AGOSTINO:

She saw my mother and she saw my wife and she saw me. She enjoy it.

ANGELA:

Oh, she was a dear woman.

LEVINE:

Yeah.

AGOSTINO:

Now —

LEVINE:

What was she like? Angie, how was she to you?

ANGELA:

To me she was really like a mother. I loved her dearly. She was a short, little woman. In contrast, my mother was a big, tall woman.

AGOSTINO:

Oh, gee.

ANGELA:

But her — his father was tall and blonde. Over six feet and you see this little woman, even shorter than me. For the height I felt very comfortable because we were both very short, you know, but it was like I — we grew up almost, you know. I didn't feel like a mother-in-law thing. It never entered my mind.

AGOSTINO:

You never did.

ANGELA:

She was my mother — another mother.

AGOSTINO:

She feel like a mother.

LEVINE:

But you remembered her —

AGOSTINO:

Oh, yeah.

LEVINE:

From your childhood or not?

ANGELA:

I remembered vaguely because she used to sew my clothes and I used to remember her measuring me.

AGOSTINO:

She used to make the clothes.

ANGELA:

She did my clothes, when I was a little child and I used to remember her in her house. I remember — I can picture the village in its entirety in my mind. So that it's like I never left. I mean, I wouldn't know the people by name, like somebody that comes older, but as far as the different sections, where the church stands, where the major big church stands, where I used to play house, where I used to go pick the flowers. Where they had the different fountains because they had several fountains where we used to get the water in the buckets. It's amazing.

AGOSTINO:

Then you talk about love. You think her? My mother, my father, I never seen stronger love like that. They was engaged before World War I, and when my grandfather passed away, he told her, "Elizabeth, what you do if he no come back from World War I?" "I not going to remarry. I not going to marry anybody." That time it was single, just engaged. "I not going to marry anybody." My grandfather was ready to die. Said, "Elizabeth, you don't know what you're talking about. You're only a child." "I don't care." Said, "I marry him, even come without arm and without a leg. I still going to marry him," and believe me, they stayed nine years engaged. After World War I, they get married. What a strong love, [unclear].

ANGELA:

He was a handsome man.

AGOSTINO:

They never left one minute's — you couldn't come over here, and he no come over here. Just to no leave his wife.

ANGELA:

When I got married, all the village people, you know, was a curiosity, was a big wedding, but it hit home. It hit home when everybody left. I just went into tears because I had nobody there, other than my sister and I just cried and cried because we couldn't leave for our honeymoon right then and there because I had been sick the day before. In fact, I didn't even think I'd make it to the church, I was so sick and my father-in-law, God love him, when he saw me crying like that, he says, "Everybody let's leave. She's got a lot on her mind. Nobody of her family's here. Let's leave them alone." That was so sweet of him. I says, "Oh, isn't he sweet?" you know, to myself, and I never forgot it, that he did that. Then the next morning the people in the village got up at two, three o'clock in the morning to go up in the north and work. We had never even been to bed, and they said, "Oh, the brides are up, up early. They're up early." They never went to bed.

AGOSTINO:

We never went to bed. [Laughs]

LEVINE:

Uh-huh.

AGOSTINO:

No, he was a very fine gentleman. Not because he was my father.

ANGELA:

Tall, blue-eyed blonde, handsome. My mother-in-law was [unclear].

AGOSTINO:

Oh, she was — [unclear] believe me, but they pick her, with so love — so very deep love because even when we go back '78, he don't know what to do for her. He don't know what to do her.

ANGELA:

He didn't think that I understood. I can understand better than I can speak it because, see, I only know that little bit of village language that my mother used.

LEVINE:

Right.

ANGELA:

So that's — it's — to me it didn't — I didn't feel that I wanted to share that, to teach my kids the wrong Italian. It wouldn't have been justice. I would have been teaching them a funny word that — but he said to the son, when we went in '78, "Is it all right if I take her down to the store?"

AGOSTINO:

He asked me if permission. I said, "Dad," I said, "what are you talking about? Take her."

ANGELA:

He took me into a café and he was so proud. He was going — I wasn't fat like now. [Laughs]

AGOSTINO:

She was skinny like this.

ANGELA:

And he was going, "Can you imagine, [unclear]?" [Laughs]

AGOSTINO:

Oh, yeah, he —

ANGELA:

And I was going [unclear].

AGOSTINO:

[unclear] told me, "I can't take your wife a cup of coffee." I said, "Dad, are you dreaming? Sure, you can do that."

ANGELA:

Oh, very nice. His mother, when we were first married, one of the sisters moved kind of far away and so the mother went to help her out and he was left there. So every time I cooked, I wanted him to come over and eat. You think he would come over and eat?

AGOSTINO:

No, come over. He have to took — she took him over there.

ANGELA:

I had to take it home because he wouldn't bother us to come over there. He says, "You are very shy person. I'm not going to put you through that."

AGOSTINO:

He did.

ANGELA:

So understanding, so nice. I mean, what mother-in-law and father-in-law can [unclear]. Even my sister-in-laws, I love them dearly. They're like sisters. They're not — you don't think the in-law. When I hear the mother or the in-law —

LEVINE:

In-law, uh-huh.

ANGELA:

Trashed around over her, it makes me sad because it doesn't have to be that way.

AGOSTINO:

Should be a family.

ANGELA:

His mother's his mother, and my mother's my mother, but they're both mothers. She raised him; my mother raised me. So what's the difference? You know, it's — I don't know, but over here they really — that's one bad thing. They bad mouth the mother-in-law and eventually we're all going to be there. I'm a mother-in-law now. Thank God I've got nice son-in-laws.

LEVINE:

Okay, well, let's get — let's go back to the — when you got to the ship. Did you — were you examined in Italy before you left?

AGOSTINO:

Oh, yes, they have to give me a visa — [unclear] release me from the army, completely. You see, they have to give me the paper, which I still got it. It got nothing to do with American — [Coughs]. Excuse me. American draft or any — with Italian draft or anything. He's free to immigrate and the court have to give me — which even today I'm sure, that's a require by the United State government, and then, too, because they got to see before you leave, if you really can go and live in the country. Oh, you don't get out easy. And then the both country, they work together, [unclear] for that, and they — they give you the test before I go on the ship. I have to be completely clear in every sense of the way. Nothing to do with a penalty or anything whatsoever. Even with the military duty.

ANGELA:

Health-wise, too.

AGOSTINO:

Health-wise, that's have to go get the lung x-rayed. Oh, there a lot a tests to come. Oh, yeah. Now, no. Now it's easy, I think. I think they will go back, believe me. They will go back.

LEVINE:

And mention the name of the ship, for the tape.

AGOSTINO:

Well, it was USS Independence —

LEVINE:

And —

AGOSTINO:

American Sport Line, as I remember. I'm sure.

LEVINE:

And what was the ship like?

AGOSTINO:

Ah, to me when I went in the ship, it was the first time going the big ship like that. That wasn't a small thing. I was on the ferry most every week when I was work in Reggio Calabria. I used to go in Messina because my father have two sister over there, and my — my uncle was work in the Post Office and every Saturday night they wanted me to make sure I got a good meal for the family. You know, it's Sunday, I come back Monday morning go, to go to work. And when I saw the ship, to me it was look like to be home. It was nice because you meet a lot of people on there. [unclear] got a lot of friend. [unclear] after twenty-four hour, everybody was your friend.

LEVINE:

Everybody on the ship?

AGOSTINO:

Yeah, everybody was your friend.

LEVINE:

Even if you didn't know before.

AGOSTINO:

Everybody's your friend over there because you all go for the same thing. We have a guy from France, you remember the guy, the guy with the picture. Another one from — another one was working in Philadelphia was near my hometown which we meet on the ship. But the thing when I get on the ship what impress me the most soon as we left Naple, we went to Genoa, Italy, the next stop. From there we went to the State of Gibraltar. I don't know if I say right, and when we went there, then we take the Atlantic Ocean. We left the Mediterranean Sea. When we take the Atlantic Ocean, I say, "Uh-huh, here we are. One way, just to North America." Then I was start to feel home. I got sick. I couldn't eat anything. Well, I was eating, just chocolate.

ANGELA:

Nothing.

AGOSTINO:

Just a chocolate, piece of chocolate, but there was — when I was — she was with the women, I was with the men because you can't be together.

LEVINE:

Oh, you couldn't go —

AGOSTINO:

No, unless you got money to travel first class.

ANGELA:

It would have been highly expensive.

AGOSTINO:

Very highly expensive.

LEVINE:

Were you in what was called steerage, or were you in third class?

AGOSTINO:

We was what —

LEVINE:

So it was like a dormitory?

AGOSTINO:

They call tourist class. Tourist class. Yeah, four bank.

LEVINE:

Like a dormitory?

AGOSTINO:

Yeah, for bank. Four in the cabin.

ANGELA:

Four bunks.

AGOSTINO:

It's four bunks. Two and two.

ANGELA:

Each cabin had either two, four or a single. Single would be the luxury.

AGOSTINO:

And the [unclear].

ANGELA:

Now, the two would have been for husband and wife, if you —

AGOSTINO:

If you got money to pay it.

ANGELA:

Twice as much money.

AGOSTINO:

We have — we have to go with the best you can travel. Hey, money talk.

ANGELA:

We had such a stormy night once.

AGOSTINO:

Oh, the night. Oh, my God.

ANGELA:

[unclear] January. The ocean was not the greatest, but the women in the — that were with me, they said, "Please, have your husband come over here."

AGOSTINO:

Yeah, they asked permission.

ANGELA:

"You're pregnant and we don't," — I was five months along. "We don't want the responsibility. Have him — we don't mind that he's here." So he snuck in the room.

AGOSTINO:

Well, they call me. I went over there to take care of her. There was a — you know, they was worry about her. They say, "What the hell, she going to lose the baby." You know, they don't want that and they — but — but they was — the service was excellent. You started from the beginning to the end, where you can say. It was a very good ship, excellent.

ANGELA:

Oh, but it was a nice —

AGOSTINO:

I still — I wish — I wish I can see that ship once more. Well, that was my first love to America. I went over there. Soon as I go there, I say, "Well, they're the only way I go there, now." I know this what took me over here, and I have the feeling of America, soon I get on the ship. It's a dream was when I was a little boy and never, never — that dream it never goed away. Stay with me all my life. And today, thanks God, it's still here. Like I said, God bless America. I'm very fortunate to be here, and then I bring my brother over here, with his family.

LEVINE:

Well, before you talk about that, what — do you have any impressions of Ellis Island?

AGOSTINO:

Yes. See, I have impression for one reason, because I want to see the Statue of Liberty. Even I see from the boat, it was my dream and I see it and I say, "Here I am. I see you." What I want anymore, I'm here, and to the — you know, through the school, grammar school or you see your grandparents talk, or somebody was coming from back and forth from America, you hear lot of beautiful thing. Very hard work. Oh, yeah, work I hear all the time. You want to make a good living over there, a fair living, you've got to work. But that's today, no matter where you go, you want to make a living, you got to work. Nobody hand it to you, you got to work. And — and — and the very strong impression I have when I see the Statue of Liberty, I know I was in America, and I remember before we see that, the people stand still, we see the skyscraper. All the way out to the ocean. It was very — daybreak. Real — I got out of there [unclear]. I went to the country from South Italy because this went over here, but my was get used from North Italy the weather. But you still, you know, where you go over there, I don't care, in the middle of the ocean, I was freezing to death. I still was watch where — which was coming to me, more and more and more, until when I get over there, said, "Oh, boy," I said, "I'm really here now. Now I never turn back."

LEVINE:

Well, when you first came to this country, do you remember any things that struck you as new and different when you were first here [unclear]?

AGOSTINO:

Well, struck me lot of thing because you got to start all over again. Even you know what you know, because what I learned, I bring with me and nobody take them away. It's not I say, "Oh, I have a little store." I live in the store, I've got to reopen. No, I was a tailor and I take with me whatever. If you no want to be a fancy thing, you can do a little thing, you still can make a living. The only thing I remember, she take me in the shop after we see the family and everything. One my cousin was work with this company, Kingston [unclear] Company in Boston. It was near the Cathedral. I think it was Albany Street. That was my first place, and matter fact, it was the only place before I left to work in Newton. When she took me over there, I remember one thing. You no speak English, what you do? From Arlington to go over there, that's a little way. I write in Italian what mean in English. For instance, said Dover Station, I write Dover Station in Italian. You know what I mean? And when I read it say, Dover Station, I understand which station I got to go, but [unclear] I think it was a piece of paper, they say, "What kind of words is this?" But that was write the thing, the station I got to stop, where I got to go, and [unclear] after a few week, she said to me next day, "When I take you." "No, give me the telephone number. If I need you, call you," and I have both numbers. The shop's number and her mother's number because we stay with her mother six month in Arlington. Then one day [unclear] and the — the manufacturer say to me, "Arthur, you sure you no need help? You want we take you home?" "No, let me start my life. I have to go," and then I remember everybody was started speak to me in Italian and I said, "Wait a minute. I don't need that. I know it, what's good to me. Talk to me English. Whatever I can say, correct me whatever I said," because I know out of hundred words maybe I say two right. But correct me for the bad one, and thanks God I [unclear] because then by even in the people from other country, they would speak to me in Italian. I say, "Please, not say me the words. I want to speak in English." I regret I couldn't go to school because I have to support. I said before, I think, I have to support the family. She have — she was carrying my baby, the first child. Oh, you got to go. They want her come back to work in Boston where she used to work. Oh, they — I went to see them and they have [unclear] a girl over there, she was speak Italian. She translated, and her boss said to me, "Bring your wife. We pay for everything," he said. "No," I said, "she" —

ANGELA:

They didn't want me to leave. They were [unclear].

AGOSTINO:

They didn't want her to leave. I said, "No, no, ways. She got to raise the child." "But what you going to do?" I said, "Look, I'm a tailor." Oh, they know. They know because then when she come in and she talk to them, and the phone. I said, "I'm a tailor," I said, "But if I don't make enough over here, I got to work another job. But I'm the man, I got to provide," because see, if I don't want to provide for my wife and my baby, why get marry for? I better stay with my mother, stay [unclear] or whatever I want to do. And [unclear] America, I working two, three job. I jump from one place to the other. I make all right. Then that's the one and then we have four kids, but it was tough days, but we enjoy it. I think we enjoy it better then than now. [Laughs]

LEVINE:

Well, just to back up a minute. What was your first — when you — what was your first night like? When you got to America, you went to Angie's family?

AGOSTINO:

I couldn't sleep. I couldn't sleep. Even I know the family. I know the father. I remember when he come on a trip in Italy. Because I remember the father better than her, because I was almost ten months older than her. I — I couldn't sleep because, first of all, I still in my mind was the ocean and the boat. The ship. Now, couldn't sleep and then I know I was in America and I say — then a lot of thing went into my mind. I say, "I know she help me a lot," and one thing was in my mind, I say, "Now I really got to start all over again," and I'm like a lone soldier.

ANGELA:

The unknown.

AGOSTINO:

The unknown is. I got to do it. But the willpower. Where there's a will, there's a way. There's no such thing. You want to help, help yourself. Nobody going to help you. Believe me. You know it. You know it. Unless you become a millionaire overnight. I don't know. That you don't need anything. I don't dream of that.

ANGELA:

[unclear] millions.

AGOSTINO:

I don't dream of that.

ANGELA:

That was not [unclear].

AGOSTINO:

I dream a good family, good life, respect everybody because thanks God, when I come — the first day I come from Italy, I help lot of people all over here, because I have been helped from a lot. Matter fact, a lot of people call me if I need a job, which already I have one. Before I come over here, one my cousin was work over there. One of her mother's cousin was work over there and they looking for tailor. I says, "Come." I supposed to come in December and then it was close to Christmas and she say, "Better stay last Christmas with your mother, because you'll never be here Christmas," and I did and we left January 15 th to come over here, which was great, thanks God. And the job that was wait for me before Christmas — see, I no miss a day. The only thing, the following day she took me for the social security number in Cambridge and then she took me next day to shop, and that's what I remember.

ANGELA:

I only had to take him in once.

AGOSTINO:

Once.

ANGELA:

And there's quite a few changes from Arlington to get there. Those days we got off in Harvard Square —

AGOSTINO:

Got off the Square, and then we go and take the subway over there. Jordan Marsh I take the other one, go on the Red Line, whatever it was. I don't know. Go Dover Station, but I write all of this little words, the name of station and everything, even in the train, in Italian what mean in English, and they said to me, "How you do it?" I say, "You got to do something." I say, "But I told you I got to go over there." "Well, what's there?" "Nothing there," but if I said Dover Station, in Italian, [unclear] I write to myself the Dover, even if it don't mean nothing to you because I write the Dover, I say, "What's there?" To me mean a lot where I got to go. That was work great. She want take me the second day, I said, "No way. If I need you, I'll call you up." My [unclear], "Wherever you go, whatever you do, need me, I'll be there." [unclear] God bless. There for me is no brother-in-law. He's a brother. Believe me, Mike is a brother for me because we go along very well. No, I have a lot of help from her family. I couldn't — I couldn't say any words. They understood me. Well, they know me when I was a little kid, too, anyway. That's mean a lot because when you know who you deal to, and you know the root, what I said before, from the family, it's different. Is [unclear]. Without, it's easy to completely [unclear] you come from nowhere. They got to make a lot, and when they got to know something, you know, [unclear] and then God bless her, she did a tremendous job with the kids. She did no hundred percent. She did a hundred twenty percent. I mean it. Any credit for the kids — I went to work. She did. Matter fact, the last twenty-eight years until my son was married, I was working steady two jobs, six days a week. I not even [unclear]. I was working, go home, the supper was on the table. Rest up for an hour, an hour, go back. Go out and work in the furniture store and then go home eleven, eleven thirty, ten thirty, twelve to make extra money. Twenty-eight years, no stop. [unclear] work. It worked very well and make me better man. It gave me a lot of responsibility, but I'm proud what I did. That's why I say, God bless America. Where there's a will, there's a way.

LEVINE:

And what is this — we're just about to the end of the tape, but what is this time in your life like, after —

AGOSTINO:

Well, the time over here?

LEVINE:

Now that you don't have to work and —

AGOSTINO:

Yeah, great. Now, I work part time because I want to. We need it because, you know, the bill is atrocious. With the social security, it's super, great, but you got to do little help when you can, because you no help it, you no make it. But we got a better life. We got wonderful kids. If I need help from the kids — I never bother, but they're behind hundred percent. That's why she did a tremendous job. Very honest. I'm proud to be an American and I'm proud to have the kids real America. And they real do it. And the rest, when I left that job over there in Boston, I no left because I wanted to. I left because was too much layoff in the winter. I say, "Wait a minute. I come over to make a living, not to ask for charity." I quit. I now want to layoff, and then I started working Newton in steady. I know this company, in Arlington I was helping them and the Social Security, I said, "I don't want to be lay off. Send me some place," and they send me to these people, and the owner like me what I was doing. It was alteration now, and the owner was like me what to do. Jake Horst, God bless him. May he rest in piece, whatever it is. He helped me lot in my family, and he put me Newton and Bedford. Now in Newton with him from 1962. Then he sell the store and I'm still with this people and I'm still there part time.

LEVINE:

Wow. That's a wonderful place and we're going to stop now because the tape is just about over. I've been speaking with Arthur Agostino, who came in 1953 at the age of twenty-six. He's seventy at the time of this interview and this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service and I'm signing off, and thank you very much.

AGOSTINO:

Thank you. Believe me, I going to say again, God bless America. I mean it. END OF INTERVIEW