LEVINE:

Okay, today is June 16 th , 196 — 1996 and I'm here in Hooksett, Ma — Hooksett, New Hampshire —

EG:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

With Mr. Evangelos E. Garos.

EG:

Yeah.

LEVINE:

Who came from Greece in 1932 when he was nineteen years of age.

GAROS:

Yeah.

JL:

And at the time of this interview Mr. Garos is eighty-three years of age.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And I'll just ask you some of the questions we just did, but so they're on the tape. Your birth date, please.

EG:

My birthday?

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

October 25 th , 1913.

JL:

And where in Greece were you born?

EG:

Pentalofos.

JL:

Okay, and that's P-E-N-T-A-L-O-F-O-S.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Now, were you in Pentalofos up until the time you left —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

For the United States.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Okay. When you think of Pentalofos, what are the things about it that you remember most?

EG:

In Pentalofos?

JL:

Yes.

EG:

Well, my grandfather had a store there, one of them country stores there, and he had a slaughter house and he had a lot of sheep, lot of goats there. Lot of horses.

JL:

You said a country store?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

So what did he sell? Did he--

EG:

Everything.

JL:

Everything.

EG:

Everything up there. Everything. Everything. From a nail to [unclear].

JL:

Oh, wow. Did you spend much time there?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

At the store?

EG:

[unclear], yeah. The store there, and was helping my grandfather in the slaughter house.

JL:

Oh, what age did you start helping him?

EG:

Six years old.

JL:

Really?

EG:

[Laughs] Yeah.

JL:

Oh, my gosh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Now, was this your father's mother — father's father or your —

EG:

My mother's father.

JL:

Your mother's father.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And what was your mother's name?

EG:

My mother's name, Glikaria.

JL:

Could you spell it?

EG:

Glikaria, G-L-I-K-A-R-I-A.

JL:

Now that was her maiden name?

EG:

Glikaria, yeah. Yeah. ?? Oh, you said G — K-A but [unclear] K-E.

EG:

Yeah, K. ??: Glikaria.

JL:

Now, what was your mother's first name? ??: That's her first name.

EG:

That's the first name.

JL:

Oh, that's her first name.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Oh, what was her maiden name? ??: Let me write it for you.

EG:

[Coughing] Alique.

JL:

Oh, nice. ??: Okay?

JL:

Uh-huh, thank you. Okay, I'll write this down, and what — what kind of a person was your mother? How do you think of her from when you were a little boy?

EG:

Oh, I was — ??: [unclear]

EG:

I was there. My mother, she left. She came here 1916.

JL:

Oh.

EG:

And I grew up there with my grandfather.

JL:

I see.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah, what was your grandfather's name? I know it was the same last name.

EG:

John.

JL:

John.

EG:

John, yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh, and so were you the only child there growing up with your grandfather?

EG:

Oh, no, twenty-four.

JL:

Twenty-four? [laughs]

EG:

[Laughs] Yeah. ??: [unclear]

JL:

So all these children —

EG:

Twenty-four. There not [unclear] was children. Most of them there was grandchildren.

JL:

Oh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Wait, let me pause for a second. [tape off/on] Okay, so, your father had died before you were born and your mother had come to America.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

So you were being raised by your grandfather.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And did you have a grandmother?

EG:

Yeah. Yeah.

JL:

And let's see. So did you go to school at all?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

Of course. [Laughs]

JL:

Yeah, and it was a Greek — it was a Greek school, a religious school or —

EG:

No, Greek school. Yeah, that's all we had there. Greek school.

JL:

Yeah, public school. And was — and was your grandfather religious?

EG:

Yeah, but we had only one religion there. It is not like here.

JL:

Greek Orthodox.

EG:

Yeah. Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh. Do you remember any — any ceremonies, any religious events over there?

EG:

Oh, every year we had Easter there. We had Christmas, New Year's, everything. Yeah.

JL:

Did you celebrate Easter —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

In any ways that were different —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

From here?

EG:

Well, we barbeque lambs there. Everybody there, Easter time they barbeque whole lamb there, and then they die eggs and stuff like that there. Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh. How about Christmas, was there anything different —

EG:

The same — no, the same thing.

JL:

Did you have like Santa Claus like we do?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah. Yeah. And let's see. So your grandfather had, was it a big slaughter house?

EG:

Yeah, he had a slaughter house there, yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh. Do you remember going to — going to work there when you first started, when you were like really young?

EG:

Yeah, I was about a young kid then. I used to hang around. When I was six years old, I used to help my grandfather all the time.

JL:

What would you do in the slaughter house?

EG:

Anything.

JL:

Anything that needed.

EG:

Yeah, sure.

JL:

Wow. Wow.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

So was Pental — Pent —

EG:

Pentalofos.

JL:

Pentalofos, was that an agricultural area?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

What kinds of —

EG:

Well, most of them there they — they — they got sheep and goats and stuff like that there.

JL:

Uh-hmm. For milk? Do they milk —

EG:

Yeah. Yeah. Milk. They make cheese. They make butter. Yeah.

JL:

Was Pentalofos a big city or town?

EG:

No — town, town.

JL:

Was it in the — it was in the country?

EG:

There were about four thousand people them days there.

JL:

Oh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh, uh-huh. Was there any other industry around?

EG:

No.

JL:

No?

EG:

No.

JL:

No. How about like —

EG:

Most of the people there they — they used to be stone masons there.

JL:

Oh, were the houses of stone?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

All the houses.

JL:

Could you describe the house where you were living?

EG:

Well, was all stone there, the house, everything. All the houses there, in fact. I never see wood house until I came to this country. [Laughs] Yeah.

JL:

Were they all on one level or did they have upstairs —

EG:

Well, some of them they got, yeah. The one I grew up there, we had two levels there, up and down. That because there was too many of us. Yeah.

JL:

Do you remember any food there that your grandmother cooked that you particularly liked?

EG:

No, she used to cook everything there. Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh. What was she like, your grandmother? How was she with you?

EG:

She was good.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

So were all these other grandchildren also living with you?

EG:

Yeah, because some of the fathers of the children there they got killed in the army and then my grandfather, he had everything there and he used to take the grandchildren. Yeah.

JL:

Wow. So you grew up with a lot of children.

EG:

Twenty-four.

JL:

Oh, my gosh.

EG:

Twenty-four children, yeah.

JL:

Yeah, wow. So, um —

EG:

But everything children, they had something to do. You take care of the goats. I take care of the sheep. They take care of the cows. They take care of the horses. Somebody up the — the store there, he was sweeping, cut wood or do something there. Yeah.

JL:

Well, they must have ranged in age from very young —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

To full grown.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Wow. Wow. What did people do for enjoyment? For fun? What kinds of activities?

EG:

The same thing as here. They played basketball and stuff like that. Not basketball. I mean football and stuff. They call it here soccer. Yeah, that thing there.

JL:

Was there any — did you do that?

EG:

Yeah. Yeah.

JL:

Um-hmm, yeah. Wow.

EG:

When I was going to high school there. When I was in six grade there. Yeah.

JL:

Well, in other words, you were going to school the whole time you were helping your grandfather —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

In the slaughter house?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Wow.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

So, um, how about any — were there any customs that you remember from over in Greece that — that we no longer do in this country? Any kind of —

EG:

Well, they were different altogether there. Easter time, things like that there, people did. They used to get all together there, go up to the village there, the center of the village and dance for two, three days there. And when New Year or Christmas or stuff like that there, everybody get together there. They different altogether, yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh, uh-huh. Do you have pleasant memories of your childhood? Do you — I mean, did you — did you enjoy your childhood —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Or did you feel like you were overworked?

EG:

No, no, no. No. I enjoyed it. No, no, not overworked, no. My grandfather don't let us.

JL:

He was a good man.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah, huh. Wow. So did you — did your mother write to you? Did you —

EG:

Yeah. Yeah.

JL:

What did you think about America before you actually came here? Did you have any ideas in mind?

EG:

[Chuckles] We didn't even know nothing.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

What America was or anything until I came here.

JL:

Were there people leaving Pontalofos and coming to America —

EG:

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

JL:

While you were growing up?

EG:

Yeah, there were about maybe eight hundred people here, maybe more, from Pendulous here in America. Maybe more now.

JL:

Where were they settling? Where in America were they going?

EG:

In Manchester. In Nashua, Lowell, Haverhill, Boston. Everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah, everywhere.

JL:

Do you know why they happened to come to New England rather than like —

EG:

Because one fellow was here, you bring two, three of your friends there, related, stuff like that. Then the next one brought somebody else, the next one. That the way they come in here.

JL:

Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Why did you decide to come to America when you did? When you were nineteen, why did you come at that particular point?

EG:

Well, I don't know. My mother, she become American citizen and she want us to come here.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Now, did you have brothers and sisters?

EG:

One brother.

JL:

Who was also being —

EG:

We came —

JL:

Raised by your grandfather?

EG:

We came — yeah, we came here, yeah.

JL:

You came together?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh. Just the two of you or —

EG:

Two of us and another friend of mine.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah. Okay. I'm going to pause here. [tape off/on] Okay, we're resuming here. So your mother was just sixteen when she was widowed?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Sixteen years old. Now, why was it that your mother came over here when she — when she did?

EG:

Huh. She had an argument there with my uncle and — and another uncle, another two of my uncles who come here. She came and my aunt there.

JL:

I see. So she came with them.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

My aunt and my two uncles, yeah.

JL:

Yeah. Yeah. Huh. So, um — so you traveled with one friend and your brother when you came?

EG:

When I came — yeah.

JL:

And what was — is your brother's name?

EG:

Aristades. [PH] Ari. Yeah.

JL:

And where you —

EG:

[Coughs]

JL:

Were you very close to your brother?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah. Yeah, and so when you left do you remember leaving Pentalofos?

EG:

Of course.

JL:

What was it like saying goodbye and leaving? Did you think you'd be back or —

EG:

Well, we thought we were going back, but we never go back. [Chuckles] Well, we been going back every four years, but I mean not to stay.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

There, yeah.

JL:

Yeah, yeah. So was it a sad —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

To leave?

EG:

Yeah, to live all the cousins and stuff like that. Sure.

JL:

And how about your grandfather, what was his opinion about your going?

EG:

Nah. He didn't like the idea, but he didn't have no choice.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

So do you remember what you took with you? What you packed up to take?

EG:

Oh, just clothes and stuff like that.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah, and so how did you leave Pentalofos? What kind of transportation did you —

EG:

With the horses. We came down to place by name Tortillo [PH] and then from there we go to Athens.

JL:

Uh-huh, but you left from Parias? [PH]

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And did you take a train or anything?

EG:

Train, yeah. Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh, and you had gotten all your paperwork. Oh, you — your mother was a citizen by then?

EG:

Yeah. Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

That time, yeah.

JL:

Did you — were — did you get any examinations before you left Greece, as far as your health?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

To come here?

EG:

Yeah, you go through the custom there, the doctors they examine you and stuff like that. That [unclear].

JL:

Was that while you were at the boat?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

When you got to the boat?

EG:

After you go to the boat, yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh, uh-huh, and the name of the boat?

EG:

The Aquitania.

JL:

The Aquitania.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh, and did — what do you remember about the trip on the Aquitania?

EG:

[Laughs] I didn't eat nothing for six and a half days.

JL:

You were seasick?

EG:

Nothing, and I was so thirsty and I told my brother and my friend there to go find me little water they. They go there, they brought me a water there, pitcher there. Where you think they — and they had some ice, from where? From the fish.

JL:

[Laughs]

EG:

They got that. They brought it there. I drank little with there. When I drank there, and then I smelled them the fish, I start throwing up. Ah, I throw my guts out, never mind the — the water.

JL:

So the whole voyage was like that for you?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

I get sick.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

Seasick.

JL:

What was the — what were the accommodations like? How — where you were sleeping on the ship? What was the —

EG:

We had like a [unclear]. I didn't — we didn't know nothing, anyway. We got first class there. For what, I don't know there. Four hundred dollars them days there. It was lot of money there. Even if they going to put me down with the horses, they going to be the same thing. [Chuckles] I was so sick, it didn't make any difference where I was there. Yeah.

JL:

Do you remember when the ship came into the New York Harbor?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

What — did you see New York or did you have any reaction when you —

EG:

Well, when we come in — when we come in there, we glad to step on the ground, never mind to [unclear] the ship there. Yeah.

JL:

So you stepped off the ship. Then were you taken to Ellis Island?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And what was that like? What were your impressions of Ellis Island?

EG:

Well, they were nothing much them days there.

JL:

What happened to you there?

EG:

It was — it was lot of people there, yeah. Was hungry there, and we didn't even understand word English. Finally there we find an old lady there, she — she speaking Greek there and she camed in. She brought us some pies there and stuff like that there, and we eat there.

JL:

So then you could eat? Once you got on ground?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-hmm, yeah. So did you go — you didn't go to the dining room or anything like that when you were there —

EG:

Where?

JL:

At Ellis Island?

EG:

No, no, no.

JL:

And did you stay overnight there?

EG:

From there — from Ellis Island there, they sent us down to Fall River.

JL:

Oh.

EG:

With other boat there. Not with the same — with another boat, and when we came down there, early in the morning I get up there and I look there, four people there Black. I look, "Hell is that?" I never see Black man before. Never. I look. The fellow get up. He walked. I look again. I go wake up my brother, then my friend. "Hey," I says, "I think we got in the wrong spot here." "What?" I told him. "You crazy." "Yeah, you fellows." We go there. We look there from the corner. Says, "You see them?" "Well, yeah," I says, "they walk like us," I says. We never see this. Neither my brother or the other fellow, we never see people there before, Black people there, and then finally there we woke up a guy there. He was here before. "Oh," he says. "It's all right," says. Other fellow says, "Must be the cooks," he says, "or something. In the morning there they give us breakfast. When they told us them guys they were cooking, we don't eat. Who wants to eat? We didn't eat. Nothing. Yeah.

JL:

So — so you — you got off at Fall River?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh, and then — then what when you got off? Where did you —

EG:

Well, we got the train and we came down to Manchester.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Now, do you remember any other things that struck you as different? Something you'd never seen before when you first came, those first few days or weeks when you were here?

EG:

Well, the only thing strike me, they look, the building there, most of the building there were wood. "The hell is them wood buildings?" I never see wood buildings because over there we had stone, granite. That's all we had there.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

Yeah, yeah.

JL:

Yeah. So what was it like to see your mother after all that time when you didn't really know her?

EG:

Well, we didn't' know my mother anyway.

JL:

Oh, you didn't go to your mother?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Oh, you did go to your mother?

EG:

Yeah, yeah. Sure.

JL:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it must have been strange —

EG:

Yeah, strange because we didn't even know her there, but we knew her from the pictures and stuff like that, but I mean we never saw — see her there. When she left there, we were only about a year old, so. I was three years. My brother was four.

JL:

Wow. Huh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

It must have been — I mean, just to sort of be with your mother all of a sudden —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

It must have taken some getting used to.

EG:

Same anything else there.

JL:

So —

EG:

[Coughs]

JL:

So then what — what did you do? Did you go look for a job right off or —

EG:

Where, here?

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

Yeah. I go — I go here and I got a job down the slaughter house.

JL:

Oh, in Manchester.

EG:

Manchester, yeah.

JL:

Now, did you know the person who owned the slaughter house?

EG:

No, no, no, no. Somebody else brought me there. No, no, no. I didn't know. Was working down there, was getting eighteen cents an hour. Killing about twenty, twenty-two cows a day. Yeah.

JL:

Oh, wow.

EG:

Yeah, eighteen cents and I worked there for, I don't know, a year. A fellow came there from Lowell there, they were paying thirty-five cent and I go down there in Lowell.

JL:

A slaughter house in Lowell?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh. Was there any difference in the way they conducted the slaughter house here compared with the way you learned?

EG:

Oh, yeah. There's different altogether, the slaughter houses.

JL:

Like what? What was different?

EG:

[Coughs] Well, the slaughter houses were different altogether because they were federal inspected and stuff like that. The other they were just like country slaughter house, yeah.

JL:

I see.

EG:

Over there.

JL:

Was there a difference in the way you actually slaughtered the cows?

EG:

Oh, no. It the same thing. You kill it the same way, but I mean the facilities inside there, they were different altogether.

JL:

So this was more sanitary?

EG:

Where, here?

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

Yeah, them days. Well, them days they were not that — that sanitary, I tell you that, yeah. Anyway, when I go down to Lowell there, I was killing cows. I killed some cows that they were pregnant, the cows. I took the calves and I threw them there with the guts. The fellow said, "Don't throw them there," and I says, "Why?" "Oh, no, no. No," he says. "Gunna use them." "Use them what?" "Oh," he says, "leave them there." I says, for me, I says, "I'm not going to skin them," I says to the guy. "If you think I'm gunna — I'm not gunna skin them," I says. "I go back to Manchester." "No, no," they couldn't find butchers them days there to kill cows, anyway. They come in there. They took the calves and about three o'clock in the afternoon, this fellow there was the interpreter there, Greek boy, he said to me, "The boss, he wants to see you." I says, "All right." I figured going to fire me anyway. I had just two, three knives there and a stone, whetstone there for the knives there. "No, no," he said, "don't take your knives. Leave them there. Leave the knife there." Go up there, see them, they were making frankfurts. They used to take everything there, the lungs, the calves, everything there, making frankfurts. I said, "What the hell is them?" He told me. I never eat frankfurt yet in this country, the way they used to make them.

JL:

Ah. What does the — what were the frankfurters made out of? What part —

EG:

Everything. Everything. The lung, the heart, the [unclear] meat, everything. Even if the calf it was dead, unborn calves.

JL:

Put it in the frankfurter.

EG:

Put them in frankfurt them days there. I never ate yet frankfurt in this country.

JL:

Uh-huh. Now, why — did you used to skin a cow?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

After you — but you didn't want to skin the calf?

EG:

No.

JL:

Why? What was —

EG:

Because it was [unclear]. They were not born or anything.

JL:

Oh.

EG:

They were from inside the cow.

JL:

Right.

EG:

I'm going to skin them, no.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

No. It was [unclear]. Yeah.

JL:

Uh-hmm, yeah. Wow. So — let's see. So, when the boss called you in, and you thought he was going to fire you —

EG:

Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah.

JL:

But so —

EG:

No, he showed me what they were doing with the calves there. [Chuckles]

JL:

I see. Uh-huh.

EG:

That's all I want to see.

JL:

So — so you stayed on working there then in Lowell?

EG:

Yeah, I stayed there for, oh, six, seven months and then I says, "Why I work for the Jew here?" I says, "I'll go run my own place," and then I start my own place.

JL:

And that was here?

EG:

No, down below here. Not here, down below.

JL:

Uh-hmm.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah. So — so what — what — what made you make that decision, that you'd start out on your own?

EG:

Well, why work for them guys? That's why.

JL:

Did you start out just working you alone?

EG:

They —

JL:

Or did you hire people?

EG:

No, no, by myself. Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh, and how long did you — did you work at your own place yourself?

EG:

About five, six years. Yeah.

JL:

Wow.

EG:

Then I hired a fellow then.

JL:

Did you specialize in any kinds of animals?

EG:

Yes, lambs.

JL:

Oh, just lambs.

EG:

Yeah. No, I used to kill everything. Pigs and cows and everything, but for myself there, we just lambs there. Used to sell a lot of lamb.

JL:

Uh-huh. Now, were you always a part of like a Greek community?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Ever since you came to this country?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh, yeah, and then how did you meet your wife?

EG:

I met her in Greece.

JL:

Before you ever came over?

EG:

Yeah, I came there 1927, I think, and they left 1931.

JL:

Your wife came over?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

1931.

JL:

To Pentalofos?

EG:

Yeah, yeah, she came from there. Her father, mother came from Pentalofos? ??: I was born here.

EG:

She was born here.

JL:

Oh, right. Right. Now, so did you know your wife's family?

EG:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

JL:

And so when she came over, did you expect you were going to marry her or you —

EG:

No. [Laughs] I'm not [unclear] ??: I was born here.

JL:

Yeah, right.

EG:

Yeah. No.

JL:

No? So was it like — was it kind of arranged between the families or you just fell for her?

EG:

Yeah. Well — ??: He fell for me.

EG:

Kind of. Her uncle was here from Kansas City. Yeah, Bill. ??: Yeah, but we — come on, Gillie.

EG:

I think — I think at first. ??: No proxy for us. We fell in love, okay? That's the way it was.

EG:

[Laugh] I think it was Bill there, for Bill there. Corongo [PH] there. It was telling my mother then.

JL:

I see. Yeah. So what — did you get married there then? You got married in Greece?

EG:

No, no, here.

JL:

Oh. So, okay. So she came back the year before you actually came here?

EG:

Well, she was here, yeah, and then I came 1932.

JL:

Now, did you — had you — were you planning to marry her when you came back?

EG:

No, I didn't even know nothing from her there. No, no. No.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

After here we met again here.

JL:

Oh, I see.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah. And why don't you say your wife's full name and maiden name, so we have it on the tape here?

EG:

Athena.

JL:

Maiden name?

EG:

Gatzoulis.

JL:

Could you spell it? ??: [Laughs] [pause]

JL:

So you — you — when you first came over, you actually were a citizen?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Because your mother was.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Okay, and your wife's maiden name was G-A-T-Z-O-U-L-I-S.

EG:

Gatzoulis, yeah.

JL:

Right. Okay. Then you kept working in the slaughter house and you started hiring people to help you?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And then, let's see. Well, you came here during the Depression so you came — when you first came here, did you think — did you think it was better than what you left or did it —

EG:

It was worse.

JL:

Seem worse?

EG:

Worse. I go —

JL:

What was worse about it?

EG:

When I came here, I worked — they were tearing a church down in Manchester, Greek church. [Coughs] And a fellow got me down there. We go down there. We used to get sixteen cents breaking cement and stuff like that. He didn't last too long that job, anyway. The fellow says, "Let's go on strike." Strike? He explained to us in Greek was strike was. I said — "Oh," he says, "going to give us more money." Wasn't going to give more money. We go back to the house, my mother says, "Why you come back?" "Strike," he says. "You didn't come to this country to start a" — "Hold it, hold it." "What strike?" She told us in Greek there. We go back, they hire another people there. I told the guy. I knew this guy there. I knew his mother, his father from Greece there. We came from another village, but I knew him. Then I go and tell him. "Hey," I say, "we didn't know nothing." They told us that we didn't even know what strike meant. "They told us going to give us more money." "Oh," he says — it was eight of us. He says, "I'll take you and your brother," he says. "Not the other six." I says, "All right." We go out back there. We work there another — I don't know, another month or so and then I go to a slaughter house. END OF SIDE A BEGIN SIDE B

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

So, were things — were things really tough during the '30s?

EG:

Oh, yeah.

JL:

Yeah. Um, okay. Well, how — how — since you've been here, have you noticed like changes, a lot of changes in — maybe in the slaughter house or in the —

EG:

Oh! You kidding? In the slaughter house today, the guys, the inspectors and things like that, they worse than Hitler them guys there.

JL:

Yeah.

EG:

The way they want things there.

JL:

What's different now compared with like when you started, as far as what you do?

EG:

Lot of different. Lot of different. You own the place, they tell you what to do there. "Do this. Do that." Even if they're wrong there. He said it, you got to do it.

JL:

Like you mean things that have to do with sanitary measures, things like that?

EG:

With everything. With everything. It's not the way it was them days there.

JL:

Uh-huh, and do you get inspected often? Do they come often to inspect?

EG:

We had the inspector here day and night. And lot of times there, you work overtime there, you got to pay them twenty-five dollars an hour there. You don't make that yourself. [Coughs] And you got to pay him.

JL:

Oh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm. So, at this point in time, do you have other people working in the slaughter house, too?

EG:

Yeah, I had some. Yeah.

JL:

Well, when you look back on your life, you know, coming here at nineteen years of age and living out your life here, how do you think about that? How do you think about the fact that you came here and changed your whole life and lived in this country instead of in Greece?

EG:

If it was — after that, my mother, she was here. If it was for my mother, there, I was going to go right back. Never mind. I was going to go right back. You couldn't get any jobs here. You couldn't get nothing.

JL:

Well, what stopped you from going back?

EG:

Oh, on account my mother was here. Yeah.

JL:

Hmm.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Um, what do you feel proud of? What do you feel that you have accomplished in your life and what makes you feel satisfied?

EG:

Hah! Nothing.

JL:

Well, I mean you started your own business and you made a go of it.

EG:

Yeah. Yeah. I started my own business and everything. I bought the place here and everything, but still I work for it. Work every day and night there to keep the place.

JL:

Uh-hmm. Now, you have one child?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And what's her name?

EG:

Barbara. And I got two grandchildren. One is name Evan. The other one Melissa and then I got a grand grandchild. Yeah.

JL:

Wow, yeah.

EG:

Name Zachary.

JL:

What's his name?

EG:

Zachary.

JL:

Zachary, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well, do you feel like you made a good decision to stay here —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Or do you imagine if you'd gone back —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

What your life would be like?

EG:

No. I make it good there because my brother go back there and they kill him. The communists kill him [unclear].

JL:

Really?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Wow. Hmm. So what it communist country when you — after you left?

EG:

Oh, no, no. They were way — I left 1932. The communists, they were there 1945 there and my brother was up there. He left from here, he go to, to Greece there and then he joined the Americans that was there.

JL:

What do you mean?

EG:

The American army, they were there.

JL:

Oh, okay.

EG:

And some English there and my brother was with them. Then the communist got him and kill him. Burn him alive, never mind kill him. Yeah.

JL:

Oh, wow. You know why your brother decided to go back?

EG:

He had his wife there.

JL:

Oh, uh-hmm.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah. So — so I guess you were glad you didn't go back.

EG:

In a way, yeah.

JL:

Hmm. Hmm.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Well, how — how do you feel about this stage in your life, where you don't have to work probably as hard as you did when — earlier?

EG:

Where? Now?

JL:

Yeah. You still working just as hard?

EG:

I was working just as hard until last year, until I go to the doctor there. I didn't have nothing and he find I don't know how many thing there.

JL:

Oh, uh-huh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah. Um, okay. Well, is there anything you can think of that has to do with growing up in Greece and — and — and then coming to this country?

EG:

Oh, in Greece when I was up there — ??: How about the hunting and all that?

EG:

Oh.

JL:

The hunting in Greece?

EG:

Yeah, I used to hunt all the time.

JL:

Oh.

EG:

Even here.

JL:

Really. Tell me about what it was like when you hunted in Greece. What were you hunting?

EG:

Boars, pigs there. Bear, rabbits there, yeah.

JL:

Were they plentiful?

EG:

Oh, yeah.

JL:

Were there a lot?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah, and so what would you do? Like would you go out —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

In the morning with a group or —

EG:

Yeah, with a group. Yeah. We used to go with a group there and kill some boars there.

JL:

What would you kill them with?

EG:

Wild boars. Huh?

JL:

How would you kill them?

EG:

With a gun.

JL:

A gun?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And then —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

So when you came here, you started hunting here?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And was it different? Anything different about that hunting?

EG:

Well, not any — any different, the hunting. They used to hunt there all the time. They used to hunt most of the — I used to hunt bear. Yeah. Yeah.

JL:

In New Hampshire?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Wow.

EG:

And I used to go in Maine, Vermont, everywhere.

JL:

Uh-huh. Well, you can't hunt bear any more, right?

EG:

Huh?

JL:

You — nobody hunts bear now, do they?

EG:

Now they got so — so much red tape now there, you can kill certain time there and not with dog. Them days I had dog there. I used to chase them with dog there. I never go get — just go there and kill a bear. No, I used to go then with a dog there.

JL:

The dogs would sniff them out, is that — is that what —

EG:

Yeah, tree them up in the tree. Yeah.

JL:

Oh. Huh. Wow. So did you actually get a lot of animals?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Did you actually get a lot of bear?

EG:

Yeah. Used to kill a lot of bear them days. Now you can't. You can kill only one now and then you can't use the dog the way used to use them before.

JL:

Why can't you? Is it because it makes it too easy to get them?

EG:

Oh, the Fish and Game there they put so many rules and that's why I gave the dog there. I got only four dog now.

JL:

You mean you used to have more than four?

EG:

Oh, yeah. Used to have twenty-seven dog.

JL:

You mean you'd go out with twenty-seven dogs to hunt?

EG:

No. Well, the dogs, some they were for rabbits, some bear, some for —

JL:

Wow.

EG:

Different hunting there. Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh. Now, would you — you'd — obviously you'd slaughter what you caught. When you caught something, when you hunted something and you got it.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

You'd slaughter it in your slaughter house.

EG:

Oh, it depend. It depend. If it was bunch of guys, if somebody wants a bear, take the bear. If he wants it to skin it here, all right. If he don't, he can skin his own.

JL:

Uh-huh. Would you actually sell that meat from —

EG:

No, no, no. No. No, no, no. And I don't eat any wild animal. Nothing. I don't eat dear. I don't eat moose. I don't eat rabbits. I don't eat nothing.

JL:

Really? Why is that?

EG:

Yeah. [Laughs] Ah, about, oh, around 1920 it was, '22-23, they were going to kill a rabbit in Greece there. It was — it was from ten to twelve years old, four of us. Go up there, we kill a rabbit. We cook the rabbit. It was kind of there. We cooked. Young kids, anyway. We ate the rabbit. We got sick. I mean sick. We had an old doctor there, used to shake little bit there and he used to give us a needle there. Had only one needle there and he used to sharp the needle there to give us it. He gave me that year about a hundred in my behind there. I couldn't even sit down. After that I never touched nothing. Nothing. No. [Coughs] Not even pheasant or rabbit or deer or moose meat. No, nothing. I go hunting, but I don't eat them.

JL:

Uh-huh, yeah.

EG:

No.

JL:

What do you do, you give it away?

EG:

Yeah. Yeah.

JL:

So, in other words, that rabbit probably had something —

EG:

Who knows.

JL:

Yeah, but that's old for a rabbit, isn't it?

EG:

Huh?

JL:

Isn't ten to twelve years old, old for a rabbit?

EG:

I don't know.

JL:

Yeah. Uh-huh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

I see. So — so, but you eat the other meats that you slaughter, right? You eat — you eat domestic animals?

EG:

Yeah. I didn't eat much meat anyway. I eat fish most of them. I don't eat much meat. Yeah.

JL:

Ah, let's see. What else? Is there anything else that you had like an activity that you've done over your life, besides your work and hunting?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Anything else that you've

EG:

No.

JL:

Particularly been interested in doing?

EG:

Well, when I was in Greece there, used to break horses, too. Young fellow there. My grandfather had, oh, about seventy-five mares there and we had a lot of horses and used to break horses.

JL:

You would break them so that they could be used —

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

For riding.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

For riding. Yeah.

JL:

That's very — that's very rough work, isn't it?

EG:

[Laughs] Yeah, that's why now I'm paying it now there. Pain here, pain there. They used to throw us on there ten times an hour.

JL:

Wow.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Huh. So you have to get up on the horse, no saddle or anything?

EG:

No, no.

JL:

And just stay on it, right?

EG:

Stay on it, down again. Up again, down again and up.

JL:

Wow.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

You must have been very athletic when you were young.

EG:

Yeah. Them days, yeah. Yeah.

JL:

Yeah, yeah. Wow.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Well, have you had anything to do with horses in this country?

EG:

Yeah, I had some horses here. Yeah. I had some horses here.

JL:

Uh-huh. Now, why did you have horses here? Just because you —

EG:

I had them up here. I got some sheep here, too. Because I had them up there with my grandfather. My grandfather had them there and then when I came here, I had them here, too.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

I had race horses, too.

JL:

Oh.

EG:

Yeah. Trotters. Yeah.

JL:

Did you race them —

EG:

For years. Yeah.

JL:

Over here?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Oh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Wow. That's interesting. Now when — do you — how — when you think about yourself, do you think of yourself as Greek or American or what?

EG:

Greek, not America.

JL:

Greek. [Chuckles] Yeah.

EG:

[Chuckles] Yeah. [Coughs] Yeah.

JL:

Yeah. Are there any ways that you are that you think have to do with being Greek? I mean are there any qualities that you have that you consider that that's the way you are because you're Greek?

EG:

Well, the Greeks different altogether than the American there.

JL:

How is that?

EG:

In lot of — in lot of thing there.

JL:

How do you think the Greeks are different from the Americans?

EG:

If you got a friend there, you got a friend there. You not going to double-cross your friend or anything there. You're not going to — for instance there, I married now. ??: [unclear]

EG:

I'm married now, huh?

JL:

Right.

EG:

And then you're my friend. Because my wife there, she's nice looking, you're not going to look for my wife there. People there, they different altogether there. They can't use a friend there to get near to your wife or near to your daughter and stuff like that. The Greeks them days, they were not like that there.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

Them days in Greek there, if I was your friend there and I know your wife doing something wrong, I can shoot you. They can't do nothing to me because I was protecting my — my friend.

JL:

Wow. Huh.

EG:

But here.

JL:

Oh. Yeah. Well, talking about the laws that — that existed in Greece and the laws that are here, is there a big difference?

EG:

Oh, yeah.

JL:

In what way?

EG:

The laws up there, you do something, you are guilty. You got to hire lawyer, stuff like that to tell you you're innocent there. But here in this country, you're innocent until you proved guilty. Even if thousand people they see you, you do something. Down there it's different altogether. Different altogether.

JL:

Uh-huh. Yeah.

EG:

And no lawyer — no lawyer there is going to take my case, if I shoot somebody there, people see me and that lawyer come in and defend me there. No such thing there because thousand people, they see you shoot the guy or something there.

JL:

Right.

EG:

But here, I put a barbeque there for judges and lawyers and stuff like that in Concord there. The only guy, he don't got any title. He's a fellow by name Senell. [PH] Senell there he want — he sell things for mobiles and things like that. He's a [unclear], anyway. He's the only one he don't got and one day we're talking there. One fellow there was a judge and his brother was a superior judge there and he had a brother there was a lawyer, and I had a friend of mine, he was a [unclear] in the state over there. We were talking about how them days was, the law there and I told him. I says, "What they were doing to the people them days," I'm talking now, not now.

JL:

Right.

EG:

There. "Oh," he says, "you guys, you barbarians," he says to me. I say, "Barbarians. You damn fool. You don't even know it. What are you talking about?" I says to him. Anyway, we start and his brother comes in. He says, "What you guy's arguing?" Now, the fellow, the superior judge, I told him. He says, "Gill," he says, "I agree with you," he says, "hundred percent." He says, "Hundred percent." He says, " I agree." He says, "If we had them kind of laws," says, "you don't need" — guy says, "you don't need me neither," I said. Anyway, "I know," he said." "That's my brother right there," he says. "My brothers comes and they lie to me." He said, "I know he's lying." He says, "I know he's lying." He said, "Because somebody give him couple of thousand dollars, he comes and they lie." "But," he says, "I can't tell the girl," he says, "My brother's lying," he said. "If they find him innocent," he says, "let the guy go," he said. "But I know," he says, "he's lying," he said.

JL:

Uh-hmm.

EG:

His brother look at him, look, he didn't say nothing. Nothing. He didn't even open his mouth. "Hey, Bob," I says, "answer your brother."

JL:

Nothing to say.

EG:

Nothing to say because he knew that. He knew that. Yeah.

JL:

Wow.

EG:

Yeah, different altogether there. [unclear].

JL:

How do you feel — you said you go back to Greece about every four years.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

How is it for you to go back and — and — and —

EG:

Oh, yeah, see some of my friends there. Some of them, my cousins and aunts and stuff like that there. Yeah. I got some nephew there. Yeah.

JL:

Uh-hmm, yeah. Well, let's see. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that — that has been a big change for you over your lifetime? Any events in your life that made a big difference to you that you can think of?

EG:

Nah. I don't —

JL:

How about politics, did you ever get involved in that in any way?

EG:

Politics, no. Some of them, politics, most of them, they're crooked, anyway.

JL:

Well, you must know, you've been in this town for a long time.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

You probably know just about everybody, right?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

How about the Greek community here, around Manchester, has that — has that grown or is it —

EG:

Oh, yeah. Oh, we got three churches here in Manchester.

JL:

Are people still coming over or not any more?

EG:

No, not from Greece. No. They [unclear] from all country but Greece there, no.

JL:

You mean, they're just choosing not to come or the —

EG:

Well, hard to come now from Greece here, yeah.

JL:

Why is that?

EG:

Well, I don't know. No.

JL:

Okay, well, I — maybe we can stop here. That was really interesting, all the things that you remember and that you think about your life and —

EG:

Nah.

JL:

Yeah. Do you have any kinds of ideas that tried to instill in your daughter or you try to instill in your grandchild? Any kinds of attitudes or any kinds of ideas about how they should be or how life is or any of those things?

EG:

Yeah, how they want to them to be. How they — [Laughs] Different story altogether, yeah. Yeah. ??: [unclear]

EG:

Now, Polish fellow there saying before there, when they came to Ellis Island there, 1916 these people come in there from Greece there, and they give them some pie there, and this fellow they ate the pie. This fellow was chewing, chewing, chewing the pie there. Pie. He says, "What do you" — he says, "The pie is good," he says, "but the last filo there," what they call it? The bottom.

JL:

The crust.

EG:

"The crust," he says, "it's too tough." Fellow says, "Where's the plate?" "What plate?" he says. He says, "It was a plate under there." "Oh," he says, "that the one I was chewing?" he says, the guy there. Yeah, that happened. That happened, yeah. ??: [unclear] know any better because they never saw anything like that.

EG:

Just like his father was saying about the bananas there. Same thing, the bananas there, people didn't even know.

JL:

Had you seen —

EG:

He tried to eat the whole thing. Didn't even know. ??: Skin and all.

JL:

Did you ever see a banana before you came to this country?

EG:

Yeah, the banana, they red bananas. They come from different countries, but they came over 1930, something like that there.

JL:

Oh, I see, in 1930 is when they first started coming into Greece?

EG:

Yeah, yeah.

JL:

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So you had had a banana before you came here?

EG:

Yeah. But the bananas, they different altogether. They red and they abut this long there.

JL:

Huh. Yeah. It's interesting, people remember their first banana in this country.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

A lot of people have that memory. ??: Hmm, yeah.

JL:

Any other memories of things that were firsts, things that you hadn't seen before you came here?

EG:

No. ??: A lot of automobiles, you hadn't seen that.

EG:

Oh, we had some down Torillo there. ??: Yeah, but not —

EG:

We didn't have in the village there, but we had them down below there. ??: No electricity, no nothing.

EG:

We didn't have electricity.

JL:

When you first came here, where did you live? When you first —

EG:

Manchester.

JL:

Uh-huh.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

And was the — where you lived, how did that compare with the stone house you lived in in Pentalofus?

EG:

Well, we had a wooden stove. We had a wooden stove there. We used to burn wood there, and we had gas — ??: For light.

EG:

For light there.

JL:

And here?

EG:

Yeah, down Manchester, yeah.

JL:

Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah. ??: No refrigerator, no — you know, that time.

EG:

Refrigerators? Ice.

JL:

What was Manchester like when you first got here?

EG:

Manchester, even down Elm Street there, you never see any cement or any hot top or anything there. They were all granite there. What you call them?

JL:

Cobblestones.

EG:

Cobblestones, yeah. I got some in a bag there, too. Yeah. Yeah, everywhere there.

JL:

You were used to stone, right?

EG:

Huh?

JL:

You were used to seeing stone?

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

Yeah. ??: There was a trolley then.

EG:

Huh? ??: Trolley.

EG:

Yeah. ??: [unclear]

JL:

Okay. Well, I — I guess we'll stop here, and I want to thank you so much.

EG:

All right.

JL:

It was very interesting.

EG:

You're welcome.

JL:

And I'll send you a copy of this tape.

EG:

Yeah.

JL:

I've been speaking with Evangelos E. Garos, who came from Greece at nineteen years of age in 1932, and this is Janet Levine for the National Park Service on June 16 th , 1996, and I'm signing off. Thank you. END OF INTERVIEW