MOORE:

Good evening. This is Kate Moore for the National Park Service. Today is the 5th of January 1994, and I'm in Canfield, Ohio at the home of John Fabrizi, who came from Italy in 1920 at the age of seventeen. Would you please begin by giving me your full name and date of birth, please?

FABRIZI:

You want the name in Italian, the name, the first name? John, and that's Giovan, in Italian, see?

MOORE:

And how do you spell that in Italian?

FABRIZI:

The way you pronounce it. The way you pronounce you spell. There's no spell in Italy. Nobody ask you how to spell.

MOORE:

( she laughs ) Okay. And what is your middle, do you have a middle name?

FABRIZI:

I ain't got no middle name.

MOORE:

Okay. And Fabrizi, right?

FABRIZI:

Fabrizi. John Fabrizi, Sr., ( gesturing to his son who is also present ) that's John Fabrizi, Jr. This is John Fabrizi, Jr.'s at home over here. I'm staying with him.

MOORE:

Oh, yeah. Okay. Well, what is the name of the town where you were born?

FABRIZI:

Giugliano de Roma, Province Frosinone.

MOORE:

Okay. And we'll get the spelling later of that.

FABRIZI:

I will write down for you it.

MOORE:

And what size town was that, that you were born in?

FABRIZI:

What you mean?

MOORE:

How big was it?

FABRIZI:

Oh, about fifteen hundred people.

MOORE:

Fifteen hundred people.

FABRIZI:

Population.

MOORE:

What did it, what did the town look like?

FABRIZI:

It's right on top of the mountain. He was over there. ( he laughs ) It's, you know, you see the movies, all them houses in Italy in the town that are on top of the mountain.

MR. FABRIZI'S SON:

Tell them what it looked like, Dad.

FABRIZI:

They got one town here, one town there, then they got a mountain all the way around, see?

MOORE:

And how do you get up to the town?

FABRIZI:

With donkeys and horse and buggies. Now, after the, I went back in '64, they built roads for the automobiles and wagons, you know.

MOORE:

So what was the major industry of this town?

FABRIZI:

We got doors on the town, we got two doors, steel doors. A thousand years ago they put the doors. They closed the doors at eight o'clock and nobody can come in. They would scare people who would come in and rob us, see? So you ask me why I come in this country? For better living.

MOORE:

And back to the town for a minute, we'll go back to why you came here, but for the town, what was the major industry in that town?

FABRIZI:

No industry, farm.

MOORE:

Farming.

FABRIZI:

A bunch of sheep, cow, pigs. ( he laughs ) No industry.

MOORE:

Okay.

FABRIZI:

Oh, they make oil. We got a lot of olive over there, and they got a machine to make oil, olive oil. That's all.

MOORE:

So it's olive oil. And in that town, what was your father's name?

FABRIZI:

Pietro Fabrizi, Pete. Pietro Fabrizi.

MOORE:

And what did he do?

FABRIZI:

Well, from when I was twelve till when I come over here, I was watching sheep. My father wanted me to stay home and watch the, you know, he needed help, see, and he won't send me to school. He said, "I need you over there on the farm." He said, "You can't go to school." So on Monday morning two policemen come. ( he is moved )

MR. FABRIZI'S SON:

He's all excited.

MOORE:

And your father, was he a shepherd, then?

FABRIZI:

No. He was a farmer.

MOORE:

He was a farmer.

FABRIZI:

He had about sixty, sixty sheep, something like that.

MOORE:

And he wanted you to be a farmer, too.

FABRIZI:

He wanted me to be a farmer, and he didn't wanted to send me to school. Two policeman come and told him, "If you don't send him to school Monday, we're going to put you in jail." ( he is moved ) So I went to school.

MOORE:

So you went to school. And about your father, what did he look like? What did your father look like?

FABRIZI:

Just like me. Like I am now, when he was old and didn't he looked like me?

MRS. FABRIZI:

Yeah.

MOORE:

And so how tall are you, just for the record?

FABRIZI:

About five foot four.

MOORE:

And did your father have dark hair?

FABRIZI:

He had dark hair and a moustache and everything. Then after a while it got white. Yeah.

MOORE:

( she laughs ) And what was he like? What was his personality like?

FABRIZI:

Oh, he was, he liked to drink wine, and he was, never got in trouble. He had a lot of work to do, see, on the farm, see.

MOORE:

And was he a hard worker?

FABRIZI:

Because, oh, yeah. My brothers, they took one in the army when was eighteen years old, and he had by himself, and I had to watch the sheep and he had to work by himself. Sometimes my mother, stepmother went over to the town to make the bread, you know, a week, once a week. We didn't have no bread in the house. She said, "You go ahead." We had to go out at least four miles from the farm to take the sheep out, see. And look around to see if he's coming, he no come. So they start to eat the grass, you know, go between the field, wheat field, I got the dandelion and stuff like that. That's the kind of life you had in Italy.

MRS. FABRIZI:

And the milk from the sheep.

FABRIZI:

A lot of milk, a lot of stuff. You can tell, I got all my teeth.

MRS. FABRIZI:

The milk from the sheep. That's why he thought, he says his good teeth come, you know, on account of that.

MOORE:

Your father, is there a story about your father that you remember that you tell to your children about your own father?

FABRIZI:

Well, I tell you. My father was an (?). He couldn't read and write. During the Mussolini I was away already, see. This was after about 1925, 1924. He go, on Sunday they go to church, then they go to, they call them cantino, that's the saloon. And they drink, and they get a little bit drunk on the wine, you know. And then there is a, they have a ( a telephone rings ) them days they had Fascist and Socialist and the Communist. They had all kind of, they weren't organized, see? My father said, "Hurray for Socialist, and Mussolini give castor oil. Got a bunch of boys, go to the town, he was drunk, they give him castor oil, and he chased them all over the town because he don't want to do what Mussolini want him to do. So that's about it.

MRS. FABRIZI:

They gave him castor oil as punishment.

FABRIZI:

He never got in trouble. He always work, work hard. And he was in this country twice. He comes in 1909, and then they can come home, and then they come back. They come back in 1913, come back in Italy. And when he left the first time, eighteen people left in the bunch, you know. They had a guy organized them and take him to this country, see. And . . .

MOORE:

So he came the first time with eighteen people?

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah. He come, the first time they come here with eighteen people, they have a funeral, because he had no news from him for six months. It took me nineteen days to come over here in the boat. So it takes six months, you know, before they get the news whether alive before they receive. And then they come back in 1913, and they started, started (?) again. I come over here 1920 and I got, I sent for him. He was back in here 1929. ( referring to his son ) When he was born, he was here.

MOORE:

And what, who tended the farm while your father was away?

FABRIZI:

Well, we rent the farm. We no got our own farms. They say, "You got a farm, give it to me the work." We work fifty bushels a week, twenty-five for you, twenty-five me. And that's all, there's no money involved. You raise the sheep, they give you say fifty sheep. If you raise sixty, or seventy-five, thirty-five belongs to the boss.

MOORE:

And your mother, what was your mother's maiden name?

FABRIZI:

Adorini. Well, that's my stepmother. My real mother's name (?).

MOORE:

And we'll get to your stepmother in a moment. Your mother, who raised you? Your real mother or your . . .

FABRIZI:

My stepmother. My mother died when I was one month old.

MOORE:

When you were one month old. And even so, describe your, do you know, do you have pictures of your real mother?

FABRIZI:

No picture. They used to tell me how she look, you know. They got us two sisters, they say she look a little bit like one sister, but I never seen her picture or nothing.

MOORE:

What about your stepmother? What did she look like?

FABRIZI:

Oh, my stepmother was even younger, you know. She had four more kids with my father, so we were, he had the two boys, and then they had the two boys and the two girls, the other one, the other wife.

MOORE:

And what was her personality and temperament?

FABRIZI:

Well, she like to talk a little bit, you know. ( he laughs )

MOORE:

And what did she do around the house? What were her chores?

FABRIZI:

Housework.

MOORE:

Housework?

FABRIZI:

That's all she did.

MOORE:

Did she do field work at all?

FABRIZI:

No, not in the field. You see, we harvest wheat over there and corn. We help each other. Three or four neighbors come and do yours, and then they go do theirs, see. And we got to cook for all the people. And when they finish cook, they go help the men in the fields. That's a woman in the house. ( he laughs ) You tell these boys today, they laugh at you.

MRS. FABRIZI:

For lunch, then they go out and work with the men.

MOORE:

Do you have a story about your stepmother? Do you have a story about your stepmother that you associate with her, any special story that you remember?

FABRIZI:

No, I don't. Because, well, you know, we don't, I never did call her Mother.

MOORE:

You never called her Mother.

FABRIZI:

No. I called my aunt Mother. My aunt used to, my mother's sister. You know, when you're a kid, you're grandchildren, they gave me everything I wanted, and you like them better.

MOORE:

Now name, could you name all your brothers and sisters?

FABRIZI:

My first brother, for the first, from my real mother, Joseph Fabrizi.

MOORE:

And he is younger or older?

FABRIZI:

And me. No girls, two boys. He's older. He was born 1899, and I was born 1903.

MOORE:

And so you have Joseph, then . . .

FABRIZI:

Joseph and John.

MOORE:

Then?

FABRIZI:

Then when he got married again he got (?), Louie and Angelina and Lucille. Two girls, two boys.

MOORE:

And do you remember any of the years they were born, your brothers and sisters?

FABRIZI:

Angelina was born 1918. And the other one was born, I can remember when Lucille was born. There probably was two, three years of difference of each other.

MOORE:

And so your, you were born in 1920 . . .

FABRIZI:

1903.

MOORE:

1903, sorry, you came in 1920. 1903, so that the next child was born in what year?

FABRIZI:

1913. The first child, my father's first child, Louie, was born 1913.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Louie is my age.

MOORE:

In 1913.

FABRIZI:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Okay. Now, back to your farmhouse, could you describe the house itself?

FABRIZI:

Oh, they had a nice home because the owner, you know, was a pretty well-to-do person, you know, he built it. I think it was about six rooms. You see that house from a distance, from the city, see? I show where the farm was. He got, they had the tiles on top, you know, just like a roof, see everything, they got to use the tiles over there, see, clay tiles. It was a nice home. But the water, we had a cistern, and we had two. We dig down, and in the summer we get the water.

MOORE:

And the house itself, how was it lit? What type of lighting did you use?

FABRIZI:

Lamps.

MOORE:

Lamps?

FABRIZI:

Kerosene lamps.

MOORE:

Kerosene lamps. And how was it heated?

FABRIZI:

Animals underneath, see. And we had a floor, was space between the board, the heat come up.

MOORE:

From the animals?

FABRIZI:

That's right.

MRS. FABRIZI:

And the smell.

FABRIZI:

That's how we used to heat the house. We had a fireplace, though, to cook.

MOORE:

You had a fireplace. And where was that fireplace?

FABRIZI:

In the kitchen. We had, you got a fireplace, you can put pots in there and cook a lot of spaghetti there.

MOORE:

And describe the kitchen.

FABRIZI:

The kitchen was about, I'd say, twelve by, twelve by eleven foot wide. Because this guy who made up the building, he was a well-to-do person, see, the owner.

MOORE:

And did you eat your meals in the kitchen?

FABRIZI:

( he laughs ) We didn't make much meals over there. We didn't cook like over here. You cook one day, one time, and that's all they eat, the bread and onions.

MOORE:

So you, what were your meals like? You ate one time a day.

FABRIZI:

Well, on Sunday we used to have spaghetti and a piece of meat on Sunday. During the week we had the, (?) you know, the beans, (?) and you cut the slice bread, you know, the old bread, and then they put in back of the juice and throw it on top of the beans and we eat that.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Make a, you know, cooked vegetables, like stew, you know . . .

FABRIZI:

And we used to make . . .

MRS. FABRIZI:

Make it soupy, and pour it over toasted bread, you know, dry bread.

FABRIZI:

We used to make a lot of cheese because of the sheeps, you know.

MOORE:

Goat's cheese?

FABRIZI:

No, sheep, sheep cheese. And then we used to make ricotta. You know what ricotta is? After you make cheese, you put it on the stove again, on a pot, and we put a little bit of yeast, and keep on stirring little by little and make ricotta. And then when you take the ricotta out, you throw cornbread about a week old and stir them up, that's what we used to eat. Fill you up, and make you sleep like a baby. ( he laughs )

MOORE:

So did you all eat together once a day?

FABRIZI:

Yeah. When we eat, we eat together. Everybody eat together.

MOORE:

And when in the day time, in the evening did you eat together? You said one meal a day.

FABRIZI:

One meal a day. We eat around one o'clock, twelve o'clock, one o'clock.

MOORE:

And that was your big meal.

FABRIZI:

That's it. And if you wanted something else, you got a piece of bread, like I said. When I come home from school, you know, I ask my stepmother, say, "What you got to eat?" She got bread and onions in the bread box. And the bread's made out of corn, corn flour. When it's fresh, it's delicious. But when it's one week old ( he laughs ) it's awful.

MOORE:

Well, who, where did your grandparents live, your own . . .

FABRIZI:

I don't remember none of my grandparents. They lived in the town because they can't go any farther over there. Everybody stayed, the whole relations together, see.

MOORE:

So your farm was how far away from the town?

FABRIZI:

I would say about two-and-a-half miles.

MOORE:

Two-and-a-half miles from the town.

FABRIZI:

From the town, yeah. We walked, we used to walk to church, and we used to . . .

MOORE:

Where was the church located?

FABRIZI:

In town.

MOORE:

In town. So, and you were, you were what?

FABRIZI:

If I can find the bottle I got my town, I got a whiskey bottle my brother send me, it got the town, the panorama of the town with the church and everything on it. I don't know where it is.

MOORE:

So you didn't know your grandparents too well.

FABRIZI:

No, I don't know my mother, my grandparents, none of them.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Were they living at that time? Were they living . . .

FABRIZI:

No, I don't remember. At my time they were dead. One of the grandparents, he had a butcher shop. My uncle told me the story, see. He had a butcher shop, and he had a crow, you know them black crows, for a pet, you know, in the butcher shop. A dog bit the crow, he was rabies, he had rabies, see, and the crow bit him, and over there instead of going to the doctor they sent Dominick far away, what, maybe fifteen, twenty mile away from the town, like a (?), see, go in there. He died on the way. The rabies got him already.

MOORE:

The rabies, he died from rabies.

FABRIZI:

Yeah. I remember, that's my one grandparent I remember.

MOORE:

Back to the mealtime then, what was your favorite food when you were a child?

FABRIZI:

( he laughs ) Meat, cheese and broccoli.

MOORE:

Broccoli.

FABRIZI:

Broccoli. We got a lot of broccoli over there.

MRS. FABRIZI:

He still loves broccoli.

MOORE:

And then, to whom were you closest in your family? Who were you close to?

FABRIZI:

My aunt. My aunt that I used to call Mother. See, that was my mother's sister.

MOORE:

And she spoiled you.

FABRIZI:

Yeah, she used to give me, when I don't like what they got to eat in the house, I used to go in the town and go to my aunt.

MOORE:

And do you have any stories about your aunt at all?

FABRIZI:

Well, she used to, this was a funny story. She used to have a funny way to say things. She used to go and get a fish from out of town, you know, where they got the Terracina, they call this town, the ocean. She used to go over there and buy maybe ten, fifteen town fish and bring them in Guiliano and sell them. So one night they come home, she was all excited and said, "I found a little girl." You know, but I think that was a story. I don't think that's true. I still don't believe it today that it's true. She found a little girl, she say, "Come on, I'll take you home. We're going to cook fish and make you eat." And the best, the girl, the wagon, they had the accordion, they were like a family in a covered wagon, they used to go. She figured she fell of the wagon, see? And when they got to the crossroad, that girl disappeared. That's the story she says, that's the story. That was a big story.

MOORE:

But who lived in wagons at that time, that lived in those moving wagons?

FABRIZI:

Ox. First, when you got that big covered wagons like you see in the west, ox pull that. You don't got no horses.

MOORE:

And they used that for transportation, or . . .

FABRIZI:

Transportation, your legs. You walked from one town to the other. If you got the money, you got, what do you call that, you know, the transportation they had in the west over here before.

MOORE:

Covered wagons?

FABRIZI:

Not covered wagons. That's . . .

MOORE:

Stagecoach.

FABRIZI:

Stagecoach. They got a stagecoach. She wanted to go, you got money, they come over, the stagecoach take you back.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Or you walk.

MOORE:

And what about, back to the house. How, did you have indoor plumbing in the house . . .

FABRIZI:

Ummmmmmm . . .

MOORE:

You had the bathroom outside.

FABRIZI:

We had the bathroom outside. And no facility at all in them days. Now when I went back to, they got everything we got over here. They got one thing extra. They got a place for women to wash themselves, a bowl, like.

MOORE:

A bidet.

FABRIZI:

That's right.

MOORE:

That's right. ( they laugh ) We're here now. Okay. What about going to church? How often did your family go to church?

FABRIZI:

Oh, we go every Sunday.

MOORE:

And you went to which church?

FABRIZI:

One church we got over there, St. Mary Major, they call.

MOORE:

That's Catholic?

FABRIZI:

That's a big church, a Catholic church, yeah.

MOORE:

And were you taught prayers at home, or, at night, when you were a child, did you say prayers?

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah. I used to teach catechism in the church. Every, I was around twelve years old. They teach the small children. They got one little room here, one little room there that was teaching the little kids the catechism.

MOORE:

So how often did you go to church, then?

FABRIZI:

Sunday. We didn't go during the week because we had to work.

MOORE:

You had to work, right. And would you say your father or your mother was most religious, your stepmother?

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah, there was no other religion. That's all we know. There was no other religion, just Catholic.

MOORE:

And everybody went to church.

FABRIZI:

That's right.

MOORE:

And what about holidays that you celebrated?

FABRIZI:

Oh, that's very, you couldn't wait till the holidays. Fireworks, the band play. They used to get a pole, put the soap all the way around the pole and put a box of spaghetti on top. ( Ms. Moore laughs ) And if you go up there you get it. You go halfway, you see you slide down, see. Somebody went up and got it. It was a lot of fun.

MOORE:

And that was when? Which holiday was that?

FABRIZI:

Saint days, like Easter.

MRS. FABRIZI:

The saint days.

FABRIZI:

St. Anthony, St. Blasio. They got all the names of the town, see. My town, the major saint was St. Blasio. It's February the 3rd.

MOORE:

And what was your favorite holiday?

FABRIZI:

In June.

MOORE:

In June?

FABRIZI:

They call Corpus Domino. ( to his wife ) What you call it over here, Tina? The heart, Sacred Heart of Jesus. Through the forest, they have a procession, see, in all of the town.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Is that Corpus Cristi?

FABRIZI:

They throw, yeah, that's right. They throw flowers, the women with the basket, throw flowers, and the priest go, walk on top of the flowers. That was my favorite because it was nice and warm, and everything was blooming.

MOORE:

And did you have special food you ate that day, or . . .

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah. We ate spaghetti, and a little bit meat, you know, a piece of meat that big, ( he gestures ) that's all. You know the beef? ( to his wife ) Lte go of my hands. Don't hold my . . . ( he laughs )

MRS. FABRIZI:

My hands are cold. ( Ms. Moore laughs ) My hands are cold.

FABRIZI:

You know the beef, piece of beef, a smoked piece of beef, they got strings, like? And we used to eat the bread, and they take a string at a time. You tell this to my kids and my grandchildren, they don't believe that. They laugh at me. But it's true.

MOORE:

So that was in June. What about Christmas or Easter?

FABRIZI:

Christmas we celebrated, in Easter we celebrated a lot. (?) Easter, and the saint days.

MOORE:

And for all these holidays, did you have special food each time?

FABRIZI:

There was no such thing as special food.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Spaghetti and meat.

FABRIZI:

We had one kind of food all the time. You understand what I mean?

MOORE:

Yeah, I understand.

MRS. FABRIZI:

You make a meat sauce.

FABRIZI:

My daughter over there, she make potatoes and pork chops and this and that. The table was full of food. I look at it, you know, sometimes, and say. But you tell them, they don't believe you, see. ( he laughs )

MOORE:

Well, what about school life? Did you go to, you went to school in Italy?

FABRIZI:

I went to school until I was thirteen years old. I'm lucky I graduated from high school. I learned how to multiply, add, write a letter, and that's all. You graduated. They give me a diploma.

MOORE:

And where was that school?

FABRIZI:

In Giugliano.

MOORE:

In the town?

FABRIZI:

Yeah.

MOORE:

And how large were the classes that you went to? How many children were in them?

FABRIZI:

Oh, I'd say they got one, second, they got first, second, third grades. They had about twenty-five or thirty kids, maybe forty kids each class.

MOORE:

And did you remember any teachers or playmates that you went to school with that you were close to?

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah, they're all gone.

MOORE:

What were their names, for example?

FABRIZI:

Well, John (?), we used to go to school together, and Louie Corlone. They're both dead.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Yeah, yeah. Pete.

FABRIZI:

Pete, in school they don't have no toilet or stuff like that. You had to go, you had to go out some place out in the field, that's all.

MOORE:

And was the school in the center of the town?

FABRIZI:

Yeah, right next to the church.

MOORE:

Right next to the church. ( Mrs. Fabrizi coughs ) And what was your favorite subject?

FABRIZI:

Well, I tell you, them days, we don't know what subject was all about. ( Ms. Moore laughs ) I tell you the truth. Today the kids go to high school, then they want to go to college, they know how to pick up what they want. Like my grandson, he's an electrical engineer. He work in Washington, ( gesturing to his son ) their son. Then they got a daughter, she's an attorney. Then they got another daughter, she's a therapy speech. Then they got another son, a lawyer, and they got a grandson who's a doctor. See from what this country do? If I was in Italy they would be a digging corn over there.

MOORE:

So did you learn English before you came to this country?

FABRIZI:

No, I couldn't. Oh, if I tell you the story, my uncle send me from over here, see, so I went to work. And he told me, he said, "The bread is in the box, all you go to do, buy cheese. Remember cheese." All night, "Cheese, cheese, cheese, cheese." Then in the morning I forgot. I go to the store, I want this, I want that. Then they started to catch on, they wanted to make fun, see? Then I got mad, I say, "(Italian)" "Oh," he say, "You want cheese." "I'm going to tell you that I wished somebody killed you." ( they laugh ) And that's, and then when I come in to Milton, Pennsylvania from New York, I step on the station and over there they had the pot-bellied stove. It was about four o'clock in the morning in December. I had a little suit on. In Italy it's warm in the wintertime. It's not like over here. It's warm over there. The coldest it gets over there is about forty, forty-five degrees. And when I get out there it was, you know, December, it was cold. I had a couple of sacks on my shoulder. I was about five-four, and I weighed about a hundred pounds. I was small. And they got a silk factory over there. The girl used to work on the morning, seven o'clock I used to go to work, see. And I got a paper, I show them the paper with the address. They look, and they didn't see. But I don't know what they say. So I went a little bit, and I stop another one. Finally I run into a foreman, my uncle's foreman, Italian. Oh, boy. I feel I'm born again. ( they laugh ) Then I talk. Then I got a job over there, in Carnegie, labor. And they give me a shovel, they give me gloves, they give me glasses. And they show me the box, gondola car full of sand. They give me the shovel, say, "Take it out, you know, put it on the ground." I start shovel. Twelve o'clock he comes, and I say, "I'm the first day?" So he went over and get a labor foreman, an Italian. He told, he said, "You got to go home." I say, "Why?" He say, "You're not eighteen years old yet. You got to go to school."

MOORE:

That's when you first came here.

FABRIZI:

That's when I first came. I come from over in New York, I come to a little town in Milton, Pennsylvania, close to Williamsport, Pennsylvania. END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE

MOORE:

We need to go back a little bit now. We're going to come back to that, and I have to remember to ask you about this. We're going to go back a little bit to your life back in Italy before you came here. We're trying to find out about life that you led, and then compare it to when you came here. What type of games in your childhood did you play? Did you have any, remember anything, did you work as a child mostly, or did you have recreation or entertainment?

FABRIZI:

I had to take the sheep out. First I went to school in 1913 when my father was in this country. See, he come over, he come back home, and I was going to school.

MOORE:

In Italy.

FABRIZI:

In Italy. I was going to school. In 1913 when he come home, he come to Italy, come back to Italy from here, and he got a farm. Then we worked on the farm. So what kind of recreation are you going to have? Nothing. We had to watch animals. We had to carry water. We had to do a lot of work.

MOORE:

How many animals? What type of animals, and how many animals?

FABRIZI:

I had about sixty, sixty-five sheep. We had a donkey. We had two goats and one cow.

MRS. FABRIZI:

No chickens?

FABRIZI:

See, the boss, they give you all that stuff to take care. Then he multiplies them and divides them up. END OF SIDE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE TWO

MOORE:

All right. So you had, these animals all lived under the house.

FABRIZI:

That's it.

MOORE:

Right.

FABRIZI:

The pigs was in one room, then the sheeps and the goat and the chickens were under where you make the bread. You know, they got an oven where they make the bread.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Outside oven.

FABRIZI:

Underneath they had two holes. The chicken to get in down there, and they get in, they come out of the holes, you see, they go in, they got room for the chickens, then they got room for the, then we get the heat from the, it was a nice room upstairs.

MOORE:

Well, when did you decide, or how did you arrange to come to America?

FABRIZI:

Well, my uncle had a piece of land right next to us over there on the farm. And his wife come over there. Was ready, and they come over and stay on the farm over there, her and her son.

MOORE:

Over there is where?

FABRIZI:

In Italy.

MOORE:

In Italy.

FABRIZI:

And they said, she said, "My husband is in America. He lives in New Jersey someplace." Says, "He's making good money."

MOORE:

Who said this?

FABRIZI:

The one who sent me from Italy, my uncle. He sponsored me to come over here.

MOORE:

And he was American.

FABRIZI:

No, he was a neighbor, Italian.

MOORE:

I see.

FABRIZI:

But he was over here working, see?

MOORE:

I see. Okay.

FABRIZI:

And he write to his wife that he was making money, his wife told my father, and my father said, "So you want to go?" I said, "I go." And we decided, we got to make a paper, we go to, first of all the place where you make a paper. And then they got one agent. You get about, maybe say from the town, you get maybe twelve people. You take it at one time, go to Naples, on a boat.

MOORE:

And who gave you the money then?

FABRIZI:

My cousin lent me forty lira. I paid forty lira to come over here on a boat.

MOORE:

And did you pay that back eventually?

FABRIZI:

I had to pay back, yeah. I sent it back.

MOORE:

What was your father's reaction? It was your father's idea for you to come here?

FABRIZI:

Yeah. My father, he was away before himself. He said, "Go ahead, you got work over there."

MOORE:

And what was your stepmother's and your brother's and sister's reaction to that?

FABRIZI:

Well, they say, "Go ahead." They say, "You're going to better yourself." And then in 1963 I sent for my brother. He's in Connecticut, Bridgeport. He come over here in 1963 and he got a job with a contractor, cement finisher. Now, he got a home worth pretty close to a hundred thousand dollars, and he got a little bit of money. See, if he was in Italy, he ain't' got nothing, but he got to work.

MOORE:

All right. So what did you think about this idea? What did you know about America before you came?

FABRIZI:

Seventeen years old without education, what do you know? We don't know even how to get here.

MOORE:

Were you frightened?

FABRIZI:

Yeah, I was scared, sure. On the boat one night the lights went out. Somehow everything, and everybody, baby cries, you know, we were in third class, below the water, and they had a bed, you know, two, one on top of the other and everybody was sleeping, about a couple of hundred people. One guy got a suitcase to go up the steps, they kick him, knock him down. They say, "Where are you going? We ain't got no station where you can get off." ( he laughs ) You see, we helped them kids over there.

MOORE:

To go back a moment. When you were going to leave, what did you pack? What did you take with you?

FABRIZI:

( he laughs ) Paul got a son in Buffalo, New York. He said, "Take cheese to my son." You know, the piece of cheese, round like that. ( he gestures ) They don't know that Buffalo and Milton, Pennsylvania is about three hundred mile. ( he laughs )

MOORE:

Who had a son in Buffalo?

FABRIZI:

The people that had relation over there. They say, "You going to America? Bring this to my son." They thought America was little, like Giugliano. ( he laughs ) So I had a sack full of cheese, and nothing in the suitcase. I had all this stuff to bring to the people over there. So my uncle said, "Let's go to Buffalo." I says, "We're going to eat it over here because . . ." ( he laughs )

MOORE:

You can't get to Buffalo.

MRS. FABRIZI:

No.

FABRIZI:

We can't get to Buffalo, no.

MOORE:

Did you pack any clothes, anything special, did you bring?

FABRIZI:

No, nothing, nothing to pack.

MOORE:

Nothing to remember home?

FABRIZI:

I had a suit on, that's all, a little suit.

MRS. FABRIZI:

And a trunk.

MOORE:

Did they have a goodbye party for you before you left? Did they have a big dinner? Did people . . .

FABRIZI:

No, my father comes in a station wagon outside of town, and before I leave, you know, he told me, he said, "Son," he said, "three things you got to learn. Don't buy any shoes bigger than your foot." ( he laughs ) You know what that means?

MRS. FABRIZI:

That was good advice.

FABRIZI:

You want an automobile and you can't afford to buy a Cadillac, you buy a Ford. That's what that means. And he said, "You go some strange house and you're hungry, they ask you to eat, you go ahead and eat." In them days, you know, over here you got a restaurant every other. And he say, "Don't be stingy. You get a company, next day you don't be stingy, you're cutting yourself. Give the company food." That's three things he told me. I'll never forget that. That's a long time ago.

MOORE:

And . . .

FABRIZI:

Then they take off, that's it. I left him.

MOORE:

No one hugged you.

FABRIZI:

Nobody hugs, no.

MOORE:

Did your family come to hug you goodbye, or was there tears?

FABRIZI:

Just my father.

MOORE:

Just your father.

FABRIZI:

That's it.

MOORE:

And how did you get to the boat in Naples?

FABRIZI:

Well, we got the station wagon going to Ceccano, they call it.

MOORE:

You mean the stagecoach?

FABRIZI:

Stagecoach. It took us to Ceccano, they got a railroad track over there. So we got a train in Ceccano, we went to Naples.

MOORE:

And did you stay overnight in Naples?

FABRIZI:

We stayed two nights in Naples.

MOORE:

Where?

FABRIZI:

We stayed in a hotel over there. The guy, he had a hotel for us. You know, they got a bunch of people. They used to take care of us. We don't know, just like what you call over here, when you . . .

MOORE:

A travel agent? They support?

FABRIZI:

That's right.

MOORE:

You didn't know these people you stayed with in Naples.

FABRIZI:

Well, I know the one from Giugliano, but he had other people from other towns, too.

MOORE:

And they were all Italians.

FABRIZI:

All Italians. Soon when you got to Naples, and listen to this, they had a, you wanted spaghetti, it costed twenty cents or ten cents, something like that. Yeah, yeah. And then they come over with the sauce. They say, "You want a little bit of sauce?" You say, "Go ahead." And he put it in. And when he put the bill, when you go to pay the bill, ten cents for the spaghetti and thirty cents for the sauce. Then we got all suitcase, that's the baggage we had, in a pushwagon, by hand. The guy, he come Naples. We paid so much money, everybody paid so much to each other to take him, see. All of a sudden a policeman come and he said, "What happened?" I told my agent, I said, "What happened?" "Well, we ain't got no license for the wagon." He say, "If you can still pay five dollar, five lira each, you can get the boat." He was all fixed up, see, a crook. So we had to give him five lira each. We were about fourteen, fifteen people, and they say, "Go ahead." And we went to the boat, get on the boat. The first stop we made Palermo, Sicily. Then we don't stop no more. We went through, see Gibraltar, and we come to this country.

MOORE:

All right. So go back a bit. When you first stood, do you remember waiting at the boat? That's a good story, the one about the luggage thing. Now, do you remember boarding the boat? Were people mostly Italian getting on the boat?

FABRIZI:

All Italian.

MOORE:

All Italian.

FABRIZI:

All Italian, yeah, no foreigners. They were all Italian.

MOORE:

And that boat went to the United States, or did it go to first . . .

FABRIZI:

It stopped in Naples and picked up some other people. From Naples we went to Gibraltar, and they come, they never stop no place else. They come straight to New York.

MOORE:

Did you stay in the boat the entire time?

FABRIZI:

Stayed, yes. We couldn't go in the water. ( he laughs )

MOORE:

You were which class, then? You were third class?

FABRIZI:

Third class. Oh, middle of (?), we get to New York. When we got to New York, first class, second class, they got off the boat, no trouble at all. Third class, they find somebody, somebody with a sickness in the eyes, something like that, and they stop. They stayed three days in the boat, before we got off.

MOORE:

Before Ellis Island.

FABRIZI:

Before we went Ellis Island. And then after three days they took us to Ellis Island, and when we got there people sit on the floor, and baby crying, and a lot of people, over there was a different kind of people. Polish, Italian, and German.

MOORE:

In the bottom of the boat?

FABRIZI:

No, this is on Ellis Island.

MOORE:

In Ellis Island. Okay. Let's go back a bit, though. On that ship, what was the name of that ship?

FABRIZI:

Dante Alighieri.

MOORE:

That's on the, I think we have a copy of that, okay.

FABRIZI:

I think you got a copy of that. I tell you before.

MOORE:

And you said you were in the bottom of the boat, below sea level, or just at sea level.

FABRIZI:

That's it, third class.

MOORE:

And what about the dining facilities? What were the eating facilities on your boat?

FABRIZI:

You get on line, they give you a sack with the dishes, a tin plate. And the trouble started when we see we were going to get off tomorrow, we throw the tin plate in the water, they stopped giving the food. ( he laughs )

MOORE:

And so you went without food the next day?

FABRIZI:

No. They give, they give to us. And then the guy come in on a boat with (?), you know, selling bread and cake and stuff like that. So I buy a loaf of bread like what do you call that, wrapped?

MRS. FABRIZI:

Sliced bread?

FABRIZI:

Yeah, wrapped up in sort of, Wonder bread, like Wonder bread. And I go and sit down and eat it, see. The guy who sponsored me, the young fellow who take me over here, you have to have somebody with you was already before, see? He said, "What are you doing?" I say, "I'm eating cake." He said, "That's not cake. That's bread!" ( he laughs )

MOORE:

It was so different.

FABRIZI:

To me it doesn't, because we eat the cornbread all the time, but then we eat the nice, soft sliced bread like that and we think it's cake.

MOORE:

And what about the voyage? How long did that trip take?

FABRIZI:

Nineteen days.

MOORE:

Nineteen days. And was it rough or smooth?

FABRIZI:

Oh, it was rough, and then one night we thought it was going to go down. Some time we go under in the water, then it goes down in the middle of the water.

MOORE:

And that was, what month of the year did the boat take off?

FABRIZI:

December.

MOORE:

December . . .

FABRIZI:

I got in this country around December the third or December the first, a few days difference, in 19, 19, uh, '20.

MOORE:

So you must have left in November, did you?

FABRIZI:

Yeah, I left in November in Italy, yeah.

MOORE:

Okay. And so there was a storm.

FABRIZI:

Oh, it was a big storm, and the people, you know, a lot of sailors got hurt, too. It was right after World War Two, uh, World War One. They still had bombs in, what do you call them, in the water. And they had, that's why it took nineteen days.

MOORE:

You had to avoid the mines.

FABRIZI:

The mine. And I went back in 1964. It took me six hours. What a difference, huh?

MOORE:

Well, you went by plane.

FABRIZI:

By plane, yeah.

MOORE:

( she laughs ) Well, the boat, were you frightened on that boat trip, during the storm? Were you frightened?

FABRIZI:

No. I wasn't scared of that. I fight fine, and we don't know what to do.

MRS. FABRIZI:

He thinks you're saying "fight."

MOORE:

No, were you . . .

FABRIZI:

I was scared.

MOORE:

Yeah, scared.

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah, sure. You would have been, too. The lights went out.

MOORE:

People screaming.

FABRIZI:

People screaming, babies crying.

MRS. FABRIZI:

The boat was rocking around, for heaven's sake.

MOORE:

Were people sick on the boat, seasick?

FABRIZI:

Oh, I got sick, sick as a dog. I got sick, but there weren't, nobody do nothing about it. You can't eat. As soon as I went in the kitchen and smelled the food, it makes me nauseous, sick.

MOORE:

And were there, you said that in Ellis Island, you had been to Ellis Island, do you remember seeing land for the first time?

FABRIZI:

I see the Statue of Liberty.

MOORE:

Yeah. And where were you when you saw it?

FABRIZI:

On a tugboat from the big boat that landed in New York City, you know where they land the big boats in New York City, I went off, we got tugboats to take us . . .

MOORE:

To Ellis Island?

FABRIZI:

To Ellis Island. Then we see, when we got a little bit, we see the Statue of Liberty. Everybody started hollering and screaming.

MOORE:

And did you see land? Do you remember seeing land, though, for the first time?

FABRIZI:

Yeah. That's, oh, boy. It was good to be on land. That's, on the island. That's when you get off on the land. From the boat, we get off on Ellis Island.

MOORE:

And about the voyage, were you allowed on deck very much when you were on that boat?

FABRIZI:

Not, only the first class, second class. Up above us, like even, they had two more class, see, the people with the money were up there.

MOORE:

Did you go on your own deck? Did you have a third class deck?

FABRIZI:

We're not allowed to go on deck with . . .

MOORE:

So you stayed below the whole . . .

FABRIZI:

No, we stayed, right above us, this was the deck on the boat, ( he gestures ) then they got two more decks on top of us.

MOORE:

Okay. All right. So you were able to go out and see the ocean?

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah. You see the, over here they got a railing surround, you're going to see it.

MOORE:

Were there any activities on that boat at all? Like . . .

FABRIZI:

Not in third class.

MOORE:

But were there first and second class?

FABRIZI:

The first and second class, they had a good time. We can hear the music play and stuff like that.

MOORE:

What were your first impressions of seeing Ellis Island?

FABRIZI:

Oh, boy. That was something out of this world. Everybody was happy.

MOORE:

Was there any illness other than seasickness on the boat? Did you know of any quarantine?

FABRIZI:

Yeah, I know. One fellow had to be, him and his wife and a baby. And then they got to examine you, the doctor over there, examine your eyes, something like that, and they found something wrong with her husband. So they got two steps over there. One step is to go to Ellis Island, and the other step is to go back on the boat to go to Italy. So the baby and her mother pass, and he didn't pass. They take him back to the boat. You see the people cry, what are you going to do.

MOORE:

And they were in front of you?

FABRIZI:

Well . . .

MOORE:

You don't know what was wrong with him.

FABRIZI:

No, I don't know what was wrong with him, because we don't ask no questions, especially when you're young like that.

MOORE:

Did you have a medical examination before?

FABRIZI:

Yeah, before, in Naples.

MOORE:

In Naples.

FABRIZI:

That's right.

MOORE:

And what did they give you as a medical examination?

FABRIZI:

They examined you eye. They pulled the lid up and that's all. They looked at your eyes, and that's it.

MOORE:

They didn't do anything else?

FABRIZI:

No.

MOORE:

But when you got to New York, to Ellis Island, did they give you any medical examination?

FABRIZI:

No, they did the same thing.

MOORE:

They looked in your eyes.

FABRIZI:

They opened the lid in the eyes and ask you how you feel and stuff like that, and they examined, you know, your heart.

MOORE:

Did they have you take your clothes off and give you a full exam?

FABRIZI:

No.

MOORE:

No. So it was basically a very general . . .

FABRIZI:

That's right, that's right.

MOORE:

And were people frightened of being sent back, then?

FABRIZI:

Oh, sure they were afraid. They find, even if you had lice or something like that, they might not send you back, but they'll hold you back for a while, see.

MOORE:

Did you see people sent to the hospital? There was a hospital there. Did you see anyone taken to the hospital?

FABRIZI:

No, I don't see. Because too much confusion, too many people.

MOORE:

Was it crowded?

FABRIZI:

Like I was over there last time, you know, last summer. When was that? It was the difference between day and night, where it was before.

MOORE:

Was it clean?

FABRIZI:

This time it was sparkling, you could eat spaghetti on the floor. But in them days, they had a babies, people from all the nations, they come from the farm, they don't know any better, it was awful.

MOORE:

I mean, they didn't know any better, what? They'd go to the bathroom on the floor?

FABRIZI:

Well, yes, well, some of the kids, they did that.

MOORE:

And so was it the smell?

FABRIZI:

Well, yeah, they cleaned it up, you know, but it still smelled. But they were, when I was over there the last time, boy, that's something different.

MOORE:

So when you went through you had to stand in line, did you?

FABRIZI:

Oh, they had a line from here, ( he gestures ) when you pass the street, about two hundred feet. And they had a railing, each line had a railing made out of two by four. Now they got a nice, iron railings.

MOORE:

( she laughs ) And so when you went through, were the staff who talked, the people who talked with you, were they polite to you, nice to you?

FABRIZI:

I think it was, Fiorello LaGuardia was a young fellow. He was working over there. He had a job over there someplace. They asked me, "How much money you got?" I said, "Seven dollars." ( he laughs ) They say, "You got anybody to pick you up here in New York?" I said, "No." I said, "My uncle's working. He couldn't come." He talked Italian, see. They had people, interpreters at the . . .

MOORE:

And who was talking to you?

FABRIZI:

I think it was Fiorello LaGuardia.

MOORE:

Really!

FABRIZI:

He was a young fellow then. I think he had a job over there. And they had a doctor, and they had an interpreter. They asked you a question. Then when you get out of there, the boat, you went to the railroad station.

MOORE:

Now, wait a minute. Did you have to have a certain amount of money? Some people said they had to have twenty-five dollars or fifty dollars. Did you have to have any type of money?

FABRIZI:

They had enough for the train. It was paid up for the train. But I had seven dollars left. I have to pay for the train, for everything, and I had seven dollars left. Well, he say, "That's all right." He say, "Your train is paid up?" I say, "Yes." "Then you're all right, go ahead."

MOORE:

And were they nice to you?

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah. They were nice, real nice. They talked Italian. I could understand what they say.

MOORE:

And so there were people there to help you in Italian.

FABRIZI:

And they give you bag, you buy bread, salami. You got the money in your hand, you give it to them anyway, because you don't know how much they're worth. They used to take the money, you know, how much you need. And you get pay for.

MOORE:

And so from there, you went from Ellis Island to where?

FABRIZI:

I think it was Baltimore Station, but I think it was Pennsylvania Station, the main station. And over there the agent, they had an agent to take care of the group, see? And he said, he put the tag on my hat, a green tag, and then they watched you. They give you to the conductor, they put you on the train. When you reach the Milton, Pennsylvania, they pull the tag out, they say, "Go out."

MOORE:

And so was anyone in Milton waiting for you, then?

FABRIZI:

Yeah. My uncle, he was over there in the station. An hour before the train come, nobody was there because they were the next train that comes, see. I come on the next train. They went on the first train, come from New York. So I don't know if you want to hear this or not, but, on the train I had to go to the bathroom. And I see a sign over there, if you went to college you know "woman," that's a Latin word, and that's "man." So I read the sign "Woman," and I went in there and there were big, fat ladies. ( they laugh ) The conductor come, and he said, "No, over there, over there." See, I make you laugh, huh?

MOORE:

Well, when you got to your uncle's, did you stay at his house?

FABRIZI:

We would be at the company's house.

MOORE:

At the company's house.

FABRIZI:

The railroad owned their house, we stayed there. We stayed there (?), and we went to Steubenville.

MOORE:

Steubenville . . .

FABRIZI:

No job. Till 1921, '20, that was hard times, see. Then from Steubenville we went to McKeesport, Pennsylvania. That's (?), but McKeesport is a bigger town over there. I got a job in a dump over there. They used to dump the cars, throw all the refuse from the mill, they used to dump. I got a job over there on the railroad, thirty-two cents an hour.

MOORE:

Back to this house that you went to that was the company house, what was that like, that house you mentioned.

FABRIZI:

Uh, shanties, they got a boards together, and it was cold in the wintertime, it was cold.

MOORE:

What was your first impression going there?

FABRIZI:

Well, I said, it was paradise to me compared with Italy. We had food, we had more food, we had a lot of food to eat. I think it was pretty good.

MOORE:

And what about, how was the house heated, that company house?

FABRIZI:

We had a pot-bellied stove.

MOORE:

A pot-bellied stove. And was it a wooden house?

FABRIZI:

Yeah, it was a wooden house.

MOORE:

And did it have indoor plumbing?

FABRIZI:

No.

MOORE:

It had an outhouse.

FABRIZI:

It had a little thing with a half moon outside. ( they laugh )

MOORE:

And how was it lit, that company house? Electricity?

FABRIZI:

We had a lamp.

MOORE:

A lamp.

FABRIZI:

A kerosene lamp.

MOORE:

So you were how long there?

FABRIZI:

Oh, we stayed there for about, I'd say, nine months. Then we looked for a job. My uncle, we went to Steubenville. We thought we'd get a job in Steubenville, see. We stayed in Steubenville two months, no job. So we heard somebody say, go over there, they got the (?) stores over there, you know, the Mancini. He was foreman of the railroad. I got a job over there. And then from there, I come to Youngstown, to Sharon.

MOORE:

And what year was that that you came to Youngstown?

FABRIZI:

In Youngstown I come in 1924, February. But I went to Sharon, I got a job in a tank car company over there. I was making ten dollars a day. My cousin told me, "You come over here." He said, "Over there you get thirty-two cents an hour." He said, "You never be nobody, nothing. And you talk Italian all the time, because all Italian work in the world with you, you talk Italian every day, how you going to learn English?"

MOORE:

So when you first came here, the first job you had, what exactly did you do?

FABRIZI:

First job I had, what I told you, I went over to buy sheets, go to work. Sheet iron, one-eighth, forty-eight by ninety-six. You know what I mean? One-eighth thick, forty-eight inch wide, ninety-six inch long. That's for the boxcar, the roof, you know. They use it on the roof on boxcar. We had to unload that, four men. I didn't have no gloves. I get a hold of steel during the wintertime, it stick in my hand. So one of the gentlemen fellows did, "What's that?" I said. He said, "It's gloves." He gave me a pair of old gloves. And I learned one word. "Let it go!" When he pick it up . . . ( they laugh ) They say . . .

MOORE:

Did they make fun of you? Did anybody make fun of you for not knowing English?

FABRIZI:

Well, some of them, some of them, I used to talk to this guy working with me. He say, my wife, knowing my wife, he say, "Your wife." I used to tell him, I says, "My wife." He say, "No." He say, "That's my wife." ( he laughs ) You know.

MOORE:

Did you encounter, did anybody have any prejudice against you for being . . .

FABRIZI:

No, they were pretty good.

MOORE:

Okay. So you went from working with that, unloading the metal.

FABRIZI:

The metal, yeah, in the boxcar.

MOORE:

Yeah. You went from that to Steubenville.

FABRIZI:

Yeah. From Steubenville, then from Steubenville we went to Majory, Ohio, Sharon. I used to live in Sharon, but I used to work in Majory.

MOORE:

And what did you do there?

FABRIZI:

I work on the same place, for the boxcar, in a punching machine.

MOORE:

You call it the box, the what?

FABRIZI:

The boxcar. You know the boxcar.

MOORE:

Boxcar. Okay, boxcars. I get it, okay.

FABRIZI:

And they got a punching machine, you punch holes in one end, big press. Then you punch the holes on the side. Then I got to load on this side, I put the sheets on this side, and go around on the other end, go around and I take my sheet out on the other side. I was . . .

MOORE:

You were still a teenager then, weren't you?

FABRIZI:

I was around nineteen, something like that.

MOORE:

Okay. So then you were, where did you go from there?

FABRIZI:

I come Youngstown. February the 9th, 1924, and I worked on the Republic for forty-three years.

MOORE:

Republic?

FABRIZI:

Republic Steel in (?).

MOORE:

And what did you do there?

FABRIZI:

I was, started out as a helper, then I got to be ironworker, then I got to be boilermaker. When I leave that I was a boilermaker.

MOORE:

And how did you learn? Did they train you for each of these?

FABRIZI:

You trained, you work, I was a helper, I work with you, you go to work, and I watch what you do for six, seven months, eight months. Then when it comes to raise, if you qualify, then they give you a job.

FABRIZI:

Well, in 1924, in February, when you came to Youngstown, where did you live?

FABRIZI:

In Campbell, Ohio. You know, Campbell over here, Struthers Campbell, Youngstown. That's east, from east Youngstown.

MOORE:

Did you have your own house by then?

FABRIZI:

No, it was board. It was Italian people. They had nine boarders.

MOORE:

And so you lived there. That's where you . . .

FABRIZI:

I lived there with other people.

MOORE:

Nineteen, twenty years old.

FABRIZI:

They cook for you, wash your clothes, and we used to pay nine dollars a month. See? You don't believe that.

MOORE:

And how much were you making then? How much were you making back then in . . .

FABRIZI:

I was making fifty cents an hour, working ten hours, and I used to make five dollars a day.

MOORE:

Did you ever think of going back to Italy any of these times?

FABRIZI:

Well, if you went back, sometimes I dream I couldn't come back over here, and I cry. We went, but for, one time I took him with me. ( gesturing to his son )

MOORE:

But did you ever want to go back home to live there?

FABRIZI:

No!

MOORE:

Did you miss home at all?

FABRIZI:

Never. I never missed home, believe me.

MOORE:

Okay. So you came to Youngstown, and how did you meet, you started a family eventually? You were working in here.

FABRIZI:

Well, you see, his mother lived next door to me in Campbell.

MOORE:

Who did?

FABRIZI:

His mother. ( gesturing to his son ) I saw her. She was Slovak, see. I was Italian, she was Slovak. So we got together and we got married.

MOORE:

And what year was that?

FABRIZI:

192-, '28, I think, it was. Around there somewheres.

MOORE:

1928. And how did you meet?

FABRIZI:

Well, as I told you, she lived next door.

MOORE:

I see.

FABRIZI:

In an apartment house. And she had one porch. You get a new apartment, and you get a new apartment. And then . . .

MRS. FABRIZI:

Where he was boarding, you know, next door, they met.

FABRIZI:

Then my wife die, my wife die in 1956, my first wife. Then I married her, ( gesturing to his wife ) for thirty-seven years now. She had four kids, and I have two, so we increased the family. END OF SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE BEGINNING OF SIDE ONE, TAPE TWO

MOORE:

Yours, mine and ours.

MRS. FABRIZI:

I had four children, you know, with my first husband, and then he passed away. And he was left with two, you know, but they were grown up.

MOORE:

Now, what was your first wife's name?

FABRIZI:

Mary.

MOORE:

Mary. What was her maiden name?

FABRIZI:

Hrin, Hrin.

MRS. FABRIZI:

H-R-I-N.

MOORE:

H-R-I-N?

FABRIZI:

Something like that. In Slovak it's horseradish.

MOORE:

Horseradish. ( she laughs )

FABRIZI:

Horseradish in Slovak.

MOORE:

And you had two children with her. Their names?

FABRIZI:

Lucille Fabrizi and Johnny Fabrizi.

MRS. FABRIZI:

This is John. ( gesturing to Mr. Fabrizi's son )

MOORE:

And they were born in what years?

FABRIZI:

1929 in October was born.

MOORE:

And then the second child?

FABRIZI:

He was born 1931.

MOORE:

Okay. And then you had, those two children, and then you had, you married again in what year? '50 . . .

FABRIZI:

'56.

MOORE:

'56. And your . . .

MRS. FABRIZI:

He lost his wife in 1942, wasn't it? In 1942 you lost your wife?

FABRIZI:

No, no, 1955. I was eighteen months, and . . .

MRS. FABRIZI:

He lost his first wife, and then we got married.

MOORE:

So, let me go back now. The first house that you lived in, when you got married, where did you live in Youngstown?

FABRIZI:

I stayed with my mother-in-law.

MOORE:

And that was where?

FABRIZI:

That's in the same town, in Campbell.

MOORE:

Next door.

FABRIZI:

No, no. 71 Picadilly Street.

MOORE:

71 Picadilly. And what house, kind of house was that?

FABRIZI:

Brand new home built 1928. At that time, it was 1929, it was one year old. My mother-in-law built it, see.

MOORE:

And what did her family, your mother's, your wife's family do? Hold on for a second. ( break in tape ) We skipped a little bit over some of the questions, and when you first came to this country, what do you remember was very different from anything you had seen before?

FABRIZI:

Everything was new, different. Everything was different, day and night, from when I was in Italy.

MOORE:

Any food you'd never eaten?

FABRIZI:

Well, see, we stayed with Italian people, so we ate the same food all the time, I was board, before I got married, you know, I was a boarder with Italian people, they cooked the same food we cooked in Italy.

MRS. FABRIZI:

In Italy, this is on the boat . . .

FABRIZI:

Then when I got married his mother, she started to cook a little bit different food, you know, pierogi, and stuff like that.

MOORE:

What about on the boat? Was any of the food that you ate on the boat different?

FABRIZI:

Oh, I couldn't eat nothing on the boat. ( he laughs ) I was seasick.

MOORE:

Well, what about fruit and things? Anything new on the boat that you saw there?

FABRIZI:

I don't like the food. I didn't like it, on the boat.

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

Fruit, Dad.

FABRIZI:

Huh?

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

Fruit.

MOORE:

What about bananas? Do you . . .

FABRIZI:

Oh, I bought that on the boat. I bought that on the boat, you know. I never seen it. Nobody ever told me nothing, so I peeled it off and I threw the banana away and I ate the peels. ( they laugh ) That's the truth.

MOORE:

And what did you think? ( she laughs )

FABRIZI:

And then we stayed alongside the boat, you know. Another boat was parked across the street, across the other boat. I looked through the porthole, big black faces in there. I never seen the colored people in my life, because there's no colored people in Italy, see? I asked one fellow, I said, "What's that?" They said, "People from Africa." See? And I never seen before, and I don't know why they were . . .

MOORE:

You'd never heard of people . . .

FABRIZI:

I never heard, I never seen . . .

MRS. FABRIZI:

Colored people.

MOORE:

Okay. Well, when you first came to this country also, what about transportation? Was that real different than at home?

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah. Over here they got the automobile and buses and stuff like that already over here, and train, in good condition.

MOORE:

All right. Let's go, this is a long interview, I don't want to tire you out here, but we're now in Youngstown, Ohio, and you just married, and you moved in with your mother-in-law.

FABRIZI:

That's right.

MOORE:

And you said that you were working then at the steel . . .

FABRIZI:

At the Republic Steel.

MOORE:

Republic Steel. And you're a newlywed.

FABRIZI:

That's right.

MOORE:

And what, did that house, describe that house. How was that house lit? That must have been 19 . . .

FABRIZI:

'29.

MOORE:

'29. How was that . . .

FABRIZI:

They had a furnace, they had a toilet, they got everything in.

MOORE:

Electricity.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Electricity.

FABRIZI:

Electricity.

MRS. FABRIZI:

And gas.

FABRIZI:

Everything was in the new house.

MOORE:

And your children were born how long after you were married, then? Wait, that's not an indiscreet question, I'm just . . .

FABRIZI:

Well, he was born right away. Then my daughter was born 1931.

MRS. FABRIZI:

He was born a year later.

MOORE:

And what about, the Depression hit at that time, didn't it?

FABRIZI:

Oh, I tell you. The Depression, for me there was no Depression because, know why? I had nine hundred dollars saved, and my butcher shop, I said, I told him, I says, "That's the last penny I got." I said, "I ain't got no more money." And he start talking, he told him, he told me, I said, "I got money in the bank, but I can't get it out." He said, "Which bank?" I says, "Dollar Bank." He say, "I got a mortgage in Dollar Bank. I'm building another store down in Struthers. So maybe make a hundred dollars groceries for me, and then transfer to my mortgage." Instead of get the money, they can't get the money out, see? That's the only way, they went through, I lived like a king. We eat pork chop, fifteen cents a pound, eggs, forty cents a dozen. Everything was cheap. The shoes were two dollars and ninety cents for a pair of shoes.

MOORE:

So you didn't have problems during the Depression?

FABRIZI:

I had no trouble at all. I never got a penny from the government, not one penny, relief and stuff like that. I worked all the time during the Depression. I worked one day, two days a week whenever I was off the job.

MOORE:

So you had some work during the Depression.

FABRIZI:

One day, two days, three days, sometimes five days, all depends. But I never was laid off altogether.

MOORE:

By this time how was your English? How were you adjusting to life here?

FABRIZI:

Well, I start, we was going to school in Campbell, night school. One Greek brother we throw over there, we start dancing with the teachers, the principal come over, he calls the school. He says, "You guys have to learn." He says . . .

MOORE:

Wait, wait, wait. You're going to school, high school . . .

FABRIZI:

Night school.

MOORE:

Oh, night school. Night school. I'm sorry.

MRS. FABRIZI:

Night school, to learn English.

FABRIZI:

And he say, "You got to (?)."

MOORE:

To learn English.

FABRIZI:

The guy said, "No more." I says, "That's it."

MOORE:

So did you, so did you learn enough to get by and everything?

FABRIZI:

Well, then we started working with American people all the time. Before we, you see, the trouble some Italian people, they worked with Italian people, they talk Italian all the time. See, then I started going, when I come to Sharon, to Marjory, I work with American people, all American. They all speak English. And that's the way I learned.

MOORE:

All right. Did you ever experience any persecution or bigotry during any of that time?

FABRIZI:

No.

MOORE:

In the main town. And what about religious life? Did you continue to go to church here?

FABRIZI:

Yeah. I went to the Catholic church.

MOORE:

How often?

FABRIZI:

Well, right now I had to sell my car because I can't drive no more. I had a heart attack seven months ago, and my son take me to school, he take me to the store, he take me to the bank, he take me here, take me there, but he can't go often as he can. She goes to St. Christina with her daughter.

MRS. FABRIZI:

She was asking you from before, after your, you had the kids.

FABRIZI:

St. Christian Church.

MOORE:

When you had the kids did you go? When your kids were young?

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah, I told you, I was teaching catechism when I was . . .

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

No, no, no. Not in Italy. Over here.

MOORE:

Not in Italy.

MRS. FABRIZI:

After you had . . .

FABRIZI:

Yeah. I used to go to church. We used to go to the Italian church.

MRS. FABRIZI:

After you got married and you had the kids.

FABRIZI:

Oh, yeah. They was baptized in the Catholic church.

MOORE:

All right. So . . .

FABRIZI:

Watch what you say, he's the Chief of Police. ( gesturing to his son ) He's retired now, though, he can't do nothing. ( they laugh )

MOORE:

How long did you stay in that house with your mother-in-law?

FABRIZI:

Oh, I stayed about a year. Not quite a year, then I rent my own house.

MOORE:

Then you said your wife died in '55.

FABRIZI:

'55, yeah.

MOORE:

And you remarried. And . . .

FABRIZI:

Another Mary.

MOORE:

Yeah. And you had, and your wife had four children.

FABRIZI:

That's right.

MOORE:

And you all lived together.

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

No, we were married.

MOORE:

The kids were married, I see.

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

That's my mother . . .

FABRIZI:

That's her daughter over there. That's her daughter. See, my son married her before we got married my wife was living here.

MOORE:

So, wait a minute, You're related?

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

Yeah, I'm . . .

FABRIZI:

Her daughter.

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

That's my mother, and that's his father.

MOORE:

Wow! ( she laughs )

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

And we were married four years when they . . .

FABRIZI:

They got married before we, hey, we got married, they got married in 1951, and we got married in 1956, me and my wife. We were nothing before when they got married, see, no relation. You understand what I . . .

MOORE:

It must have been some wedding party. ( they laugh ) Well, okay.

FABRIZI:

Show her the picture, there.

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

In between that time he bought a house.

MOORE:

So you eventually bought your own house.

FABRIZI:

Yeah. I was in that house, I stayed there for about fifty-seven years.

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

What year?

FABRIZI:

I bought a house in 1937.

MOORE:

And where was that house?

FABRIZI:

In Youngstown.

MOORE:

In Youngstown.

MR. FABRIZI'S SON:

What was the address?

MOORE:

What was the address of that house?

FABRIZI:

That's Decatur Street on the east side.

MR. FABRIZI'S SON:

No . . .

MRS. FABRIZI:

No, no. The one you bought on Cameron.

FABRIZI:

Oh, in Cameron, on Cameron Avenue. 906 Cameron.

MRS. FABRIZI:

The house you bought.

MOORE:

906 Cameron, in Youngstown, Ohio.

FABRIZI:

In Youngstown, Ohio.

MOORE:

And that's where you lived?

FABRIZI:

I lived there for thirty-seven, for fifty-seven years, I think, since 1937 when I . . .

MRS. FABRIZI:

With your first wife you lived in there twenty-nine years?

FABRIZI:

1937 I moved in that house.

WOMAN:

Yeah.

FABRIZI:

And then I stayed there till 1992, '93.

MOORE:

So you just moved.

FABRIZI:

I just moved this spring over here.

MOORE:

And during all this time, besides the death of your first wife, did you have any other tragedies after coming to the United States in the family?

FABRIZI:

No.

MOORE:

Let me think what else? So . . .

FABRIZI:

My brother died in South America when he was eighty-one years old. He died of a heart attack.

MOORE:

And he had gone to South America.

FABRIZI:

Yeah, he was in Argentina.

MOORE:

In Argentina.

FABRIZI:

He died over there, 1957, I think.

MR. FABRIZI'S SON:

Which brother?

MRS. FABRIZI:

Joe.

FABRIZI:

Joe.

MRS. FABRIZI:

His older one.

MOORE:

Your older brother, Joe.

FABRIZI:

My older brother, Joe. He was born 1899.

MOORE:

All right. If you look back over your life now, and everything that happened, do you ever have regrets about leaving Italy?

FABRIZI:

Let me tell you something. Sometimes I dream I'm in Italy and I can't come back here. I start to cry. ( they laugh )

MRS. FABRIZI:

So he's glad he's here.

MOORE:

So you think that your decision was a good one?

FABRIZI:

Oh, you don't understand. You have to live a place like where I was living, and then you come over some place where your life is, a lot of people in this country just don't appreciate this country, I tell you that. They don't appreciate at all. They, I don't know why some people are like that. Lazy. Don't want to work. They want to go for it. They want something where someone will (?).

MOORE:

Did your children learn Italian?

FABRIZI:

No. They no want. When I used to talk Italian to them, they go, "No, no." Then when they come to Italy, "What he say? What he say?" I say, "Why didn't you learn? What I tell you?" He didn't want to learn.

MOORE:

All right. So your children didn't learn. ( addressing Mrs. Fabrizi ) And you are what ethnic background, then?

MRS. FABRIZI:

Well, I'm his second wife.

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

She's Italian.

MOORE:

You're Italian.

MRS. FABRIZI:

I'm Italian, too. ( addressing Mr. Fabrizi ) Well, wait a minute. Your mother, wasn't your mother Mary, or was it your stepmother Mary?

FABRIZI:

No. My mother was Lucille.

MRS. FABRIZI:

And your stepmother was Mary?

FABRIZI:

My stepmother was Mary, yeah.

MRS. FABRIZI:

And then his first wife was Mary, and his second wife was Mary. So he had three Marys.

MOORE:

All the women close in his life were Mary.

FABRIZI:

And my father was with a woman named Mary, she was Mary, and the other one was Mary, all Mary.

MOORE:

Do you speak, do you speak Italian with each other now?

MRS. FABRIZI:

No.

FABRIZI:

She don't want to, she come from Calabria, she don't understand. ( Ms. Moore laughs )

MR. FABRIZI'S SON:

They still speak Italian.

MOORE:

And are any of your grandchildren interested in learning Italian? Is anyone interested in learning Italian?

MRS. FABRIZI:

No.

FABRIZI:

Well, we got, I told you what we got, two doctors, and stuff like that. We got teachers, we got nurses, and nobody want to speak Italian.

MOORE:

Not yet, at least. There's time.

FABRIZI:

They figure they don't need it.

FEMALE VOICE OFF MIKE:

Because they . . .

MRS. FABRIZI:

They talk English to each other.

MOORE:

Well, I'd like to thank you on behalf of the Ellis Island Project for helping us out.

FABRIZI:

That's all right.

MOORE:

And we will be sure to send you a copy of this.

FABRIZI:

Yeah.

MOORE:

And we'll be in touch with you this summer again, I guess, with these tapes, to send to the family. All right, this is Kate Moore signing off in Canfield, Ohio on the fifth of January 1994 for the Ellis Island Oral History Project.