HISTORIAN'S NOTE:

The mp3 recording cuts off at 27:51 in the middle of the interview.

MOORE:

Good morning. This is Kate Moore for the National Park Service. Today is the twenty seventh of April, 1994 and I'm in Chicago, Illinois at the home of Sylvia Myers who came from Russia in 1923 when she was fourteen years old. Why don't you begin by giving us your full name and date of birth please?

MYERS:

My name is Sylvia Myers. I came here in 1923. I was born nineteen oh—uh, March first, 1908.

MOORE:

I see. What was your maiden name? KM-0042 2

MYERS:

Darkova.

MOORE:

How do you spell that?

MYERS:

D-A-R-K-O-V-A but that's my American name.

MOORE:

What was it originally?

MYERS:

Derkovskia.

MOORE:

How do you spell that?

MYERS:

D - D-E-R-K-O-V-S-K-I-A - Derkovskia.

MOORE:

And where were you born?

MYERS:

I was born in a village - [not understood] (laughs).

MOORE:

And could you spell that name for us?

MYERS:

[not understood] - I wish I could get it.

MOORE:

Oh no but I'll take it later then from - from the records. But remind me, ok.

MYERS:

Yeah, because the records are there.

MOORE:

Ok and um - what did the town look like?

MYERS:

Thirteen houses with straw - straw roofs.

MOORE:

And what size town was that then you say people - how many people? KM-0042 3

MYERS:

I - well - the - the peasants had a lot of children. I don't know - my mother had four.

MOORE:

But thirteen families then?

MYERS:

Yes thirteen th—thirteen houses so thirteen families, yes.

MOORE:

Mhmm. And what was the major industry or major thing that the town did?

MYERS:

That was farming.

MOORE:

[superposed] Farming.

MYERS:

And - and my uncle - uh - had - we had - my father - we had like - like uh - what they slaughter cows - meat - what do you c—what do you call that?

MOORE:

Slaughterhouse?

MYERS:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Your father had that?

MYERS:

Yeah. He was a butcher.

MOORE:

He was a butcher.

MYERS:

But there he used to have - see we're Jewish so it was - used to have a - a [not understood] -- what they call cutting to - to kill the cows. They used to cut the neck. They didn't kill 'em on the head. It was because some of the parts of meat was - was kosher— KM-0042 4

MOORE:

[interposed] Right.

MYERS:

Jewish. And some was not. And they used to go to different towns to sell it. And uh - the wagon and a horse.

MOORE:

Well this town that you lived in - its name you said was - the village - the thirteen houses—

MYERS:

[superposed] The village.

MOORE:

What was the name of that specific place?

MYERS:

[not understood]

MOORE:

[not understood]. Ok and the other name you gave me - what was that that you were gonna get from the records?

MYERS:

Oh [not understood]? That's the goberne[ph]. That's a state.

MOORE:

That's the state.

MYERS:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Ok. And what was the largest town?

MYERS:

Oh after the revolution we went to a city.

MOORE:

I see. Ok but w—what would you say was the largest city near you - big city?

MYERS:

Novgorod-Seversk. KM-0042 5

MOORE:

Uh huh. We'll have to get the spelling of that [not understood].

MYERS:

Yeah we have it there.

MOORE:

Alright and um - what was your father's name?

MYERS:

Aron - Aron.

MOORE:

Uh huh, could you spell that please?

MYERS:

A-R - A-R-O-N.

MOORE:

A-R-O-N. And his occupation was a butcher, you said?

MYERS:

Yes.

MOORE:

And what did he look like?

MYERS:

I don't know. I was a year old when he passed away. I don't know.

MOORE:

Do you know any—did they say anything to you about his personality or his temperament?

MYERS:

I don't know anything about him.

MOORE:

How about your mother's name?

MYERS:

My mother's name was Chana Rochol (laughs).

MOORE:

And could you spell that for us for the records? KM-0042 6

MYERS:

Chana - there is no C-H-A-N-A I guess. And R—Rochol is R-O-C-H-O-L. So I don't know [not understood].

MOORE:

[superposed] [not understood]

MYERS:

Here she was called Anna.

MOORE:

Anna, ok. And what was her maiden name?

MYERS:

Fonkatz -- F-O-N-K-A-T-Z.

MOORE:

Alright. What was her occupation?

MYERS:

My occupation?

MOORE:

Her - your mother's.

MYERS:

Well sh—she took over when my father died. She did the same thing.

MOORE:

She was a butcher then.

MYERS:

Butcher.

MOORE:

I see. And what did she look like?

MYERS:

A little bit like me.

MOORE:

Was she - how tall was she then? KM-0042 7

MYERS:

Well that time I think she was tall. I used to be tall. I was five three and now I'm only not even five.

MOORE:

Yeah five - about five three.

MYERS:

Yeah. About five four - she was taller than -

MOORE:

How about her hair and eyes? Was she fair?

MYERS:

Uh, she was - uh - fair skinned like me. She had my eyes but she had dark hair. I had dark hair, too.

MOORE:

And what about her personality and temperament? What about your mother could you tell us?

MYERS:

My mother used to like people and talk like me (laughs).

MOORE:

You like to communicate?

MYERS:

Yeah (laughs).

MOORE:

And what were her chores around - w—around the house? Did she also work at home as a -

MYERS:

[interposed] Well we h - we had - see I - w--I was a year old my father died. There was - a brother was seven, one sister five, one - one sister five, one - let's see. She was j—one three, and I'm one. So we had a peasant girl taking care of us.

MOORE:

Mhmm. KM-0042 8

MYERS:

Mother - mother had to deliver the meat all over the - n—n—the towns around us.

MOORE:

So the peasant girl d—what were her chores? What did she do besides taking care of you? Did she make food?

MYERS:

[interposed] Oh sh—yeah.

MOORE:

So did she clean the house?

MYERS:

Yeah.

MOORE:

So - so your mother basically brought in the money with the butcher.

MYERS:

Well she cooked too when she got home, yeah.

MOORE:

Oh she did. Did you help—

MYERS:

[interposed] She did most of it - me?

MOORE:

Yeah.

MYERS:

I was too little. My - I had a sister older. She was ten years old when she start cooking.

MOORE:

And could you name w—first of all, do you have a story that you associate with your mother? A favorite story about your mother that you remember?

MYERS:

Oh a favorite story? That I must tell you. When sh-when I w—I was a little girl yet but I remember. She - they tried to marry her off. She had four children and it was in another town so they - my mother got dressed up. She KM-0042 9 had braids and she had a beautiful jacket - tight, velvet jacket. She was going to meet the man so she went to the bigger town to meet the man and she came back very disappointed. He had six children but he didn't want her because she had four. So that - that's the most important that I remember. She came--

MOORE:

[interposed] Where was the town that she went to? What -- what town was that? Do you remember the name of it?

MYERS:

Gluchov.

MOORE:

And how do you spell that?

MYERS:

(laughs) Well let's - Gluchov - G-L-U-C-H-O-V. I - whatever (laughs).

MOORE:

Yeah. And - and who was trying to marry her off? Was she trying herself or was -

MYERS:

[interposed] No, no. Somebody recommended her.

MOORE:

I see. So she - this fellow was recommended to her.

MYERS:

Yeah. And she went there. She had a sister in that town so she went there.

MOORE:

And—

MYERS:

[interposed] Came back disappointed (laughs).

MOORE:

(laughs) She never tried it again?

MYERS:

No. KM-0042 10

MOORE:

No. (laughs) W—w—could you name your brothers and sisters please?

MYERS:

My brother was Abram.

MOORE:

Abram and could you spell that?

MYERS:

[superposed] My s—A-B-R-A-M. My sister - the older sister was Sonja. My other sister was Dora.

MOORE:

Dora. And Dora was younger.

MYERS:

Dora was - I'm the youngest.

MOORE:

Oh you're the youngest.

MYERS:

Dora was older. Sonja just passed away.

MOORE:

Mhmm how much older was your brother?

MYERS:

My brother was seven years older than I.

MOORE:

And—

MYERS:

[interposed] Then came my sister, then came my other sister, then I came. Mother was only married eight years and then my father died.

MOORE:

Do you remember your house in this small town?

MYERS:

Yes, I remember the house. KM-0042 11

MOORE:

What kind of house was it? Tell us about it. Could you describe it?

MYERS:

Well it was like a big kitchen - that's the first house that I remember. And like a living room but there was another room in the back. When my father took sick -- he had TB so nobody could come in there. And then there was like a bedroom but everybody had their own little bed. Nobody slept together. And that's all I remember.

MOORE:

The - the house you said had a - had a s—

MYERS:

[interposed] A straw - a straw -

MOORE:

[interposed] A straw roof.

MYERS:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Um what was the house m—the walls made of? Was it brick or wood?

MYERS:

Wood.

MOORE:

It was a wooden house?

MYERS:

Yeah but we had a brick oven-like and there was - on the oven we used to sleep there in the winter.

MOORE:

On top of the oven?

MYERS:

Well there was like - like a cubby hole. You could sleep there 'cause it was warm (laughs).

MOORE:

(laughs) Um how was - w—how was your house lit? KM-0042 12

MYERS:

Uh, lamp - kerosene lamp.

MOORE:

Kerosene lamp. And um, how was it heated?

MYERS:

Heated by wood.

MOORE:

[interposed] By wood.

MYERS:

[interposed] And - and that stove. That - there it was uh, brick - brick thing built - big one. And it was an opening on top and it used to warm.

MOORE:

And was there a garden?

MYERS:

Oh yeah, we had a garden.

MOORE:

And what did you grow in the garden?

MYERS:

Oh we had carrots, we had - I don't remember tomatoes but we had cucumbers. Just take 'em out and wipe 'em off and eat 'em!

MOORE:

(laughs) And did you keep animals at all?

MYERS:

Calves and of course we had a horse and we had cattle.

MOORE:

You had cattle.

MYERS:

Cows.

MOORE:

Yes, cows. Um, now what kind of furniture did you - do you remember in that house? KM-0042 13

MYERS:

I don't - wood (laughs).

MOORE:

Wood furniture. Did you have a table in the kitchen?

MYERS:

Oh yeah. A big table in the kitchen. That was when I was little.

MOORE:

[superposed] What about water?

MYERS:

Water? Used to go to the outs—what do you call it - ep—e—well.

MOORE:

To a well.

MYERS:

Yeah.

MOORE:

And carry water back.

MYERS:

Yeah.

MOORE:

What about um, plumbing ind—going to the bathroom then?

MYERS:

Outside.

MOORE:

Outside? Ok.

MYERS:

At night we had little pots.

MOORE:

And what about taking baths and things? How did you do that?

MYERS:

We had like a barrel. KM-0042 14

MOORE:

A big barrel?

MYERS:

Well it was sort of like a barrel. I remembered it. As little as I was I remember it.

MOORE:

And um, what about um, what was your favorite food when you were little? Did you have one?

MYERS:

(laughs) Bread. Well when I was little we still had food. We had food. I used to like meat with potatoes, mother used to make.

MOORE:

And what was mealtime like? You said you had a peasant girl taking care of you.

MYERS:

Actually, it was -- breakfast was bread and tea. But then we had a meal about two o'clock which was a big meal. In the evening was a small meal. D—n—there was never a dinner in the evening.

MOORE:

And you kept kosher at home?

MYERS:

Yes, mother kept kosher.

MOORE:

And were there other relatives y—what about your grandparents?

MYERS:

A—my grandparents lived in a different town. I don't know much about them.

MOORE:

You never saw them very much?

MYERS:

Oh yes I did see them but that was my grand—grandmother died when I was very young. But my grandfather used to come to visit us. I remember him with a beard. KM-0042 15

MOORE:

And whose father was he - your mother's or your father's?

MYERS:

My mother's.

MOORE:

Your mother's father came to visit you.

MYERS:

[interposed] Yeah.

MOORE:

What did he - describe him.

MYERS:

Well, he was a tall man with a beard - a gray beard. That's all I remember about him.

MOORE:

Do you know what he did for occupation?

MYERS:

He was already - he used to have a store like a candy store when I - when I was really little. But later he went to live with his son in a city and he wasn't doing anything anymore.

MOORE:

And what town did they live in your - your s—do you remember the name at all? Was it far away?

MYERS:

Yes, it was far away. Romnie.

MOORE:

Romnie? And how do you spell that?

MYERS:

R-O-M-N-I-E (laughs) - Romnie. E.

MOORE:

And well how - when you say it was far - was it a day's ride in - on a horse or--? KM-0042 16

MYERS:

No, no that - yeah. Only horses, yeah. It was more than a day.

MOORE:

Ok now who were you closest to - whom were you closest to like - in the family. If you were to pick somebody that was your closest person.

MYERS:

My sister.

MOORE:

Which one?

MYERS:

Dora.

MOORE:

Dora was your closest?

MYERS:

Yeah, she raised me.

MOORE:

Ah.

MYERS:

When she was ten years old she start cooking.

MOORE:

And she took care of you.

MYERS:

That was after revolution.

MOORE:

Do you have any stories about Dora? Your favorite ones?

MYERS:

Dora? No, that - she was always - oh I - I have a story about her. She - we had one room, I remember. Later on, we had just one room. We moved from that town in a little bigger town.

MOORE:

What was the little bigger town's name? KM-0042 17

MYERS:

Znob.

MOORE:

Znob.

MYERS:

Znob. Z-N-O-B.

MOORE:

Uh huh.

MYERS:

And so we had - we never slept together. We had small cots like. We all had a bed. In one room, but she's too clean. But - but she did - whatever she - you know - she used to hide everything under the bed. But she cleaned in the middle (laughs).

MOORE:

(laughs) What about your brother and your sister? Do you have any -

MYERS:

[interposed] Well my sister and my brother - they - when they started getting older my mother send them away to a sister. I don't remember the town. And my s—my sister went to my mother's - my father's sister because they had to go to school.

MOORE:

Which sister now you're talking about you said -

MYERS:

Sonja. Sonja was away.

MOORE:

Sonja went to your father's sister.

MYERS:

Yeah she went to my father's sister because they had better schooling there.

MOORE:

And where was that? KM-0042 18

MYERS:

Uh, I don't remember that one - wait a minute. Really I don't remember. But I—

MOORE:

[interposed] So how old was she when she was - how old were your brother and sister when they were sent away?

MYERS:

Oh let's see. My sister must have been around twelve. Let's see - revolution broke out I was nine. She was four years older so she must've been twelve or eleven when she went - went away to school.

MOORE:

[superposed] And where did your brother go then?

MYERS:

My brother went to my mother's sister because they had a store and he helped them out.

MOORE:

And that was in the town of --?

MYERS:

Uh, Konotop.

MOORE:

Konotop. Did we spell that already?

MYERS:

I think so. K-O-N-O-T-O-P - Konotop. I [not understood] (laughs).

MOORE:

Alright and um - so how did you feel about them going away?

MYERS:

I was too young. I was independent.

MOORE:

And but your older sister Dora stayed—

MYERS:

[interposed] My - my second s—you know - the one that was two years older. She s—she stayed [recording skips]. KM-0042 19

MOORE:

Ok who - that's Dora?

MYERS:

Dora.

MOORE:

Yeah.

MYERS:

Dora stayed.

MOORE:

Oh she's the sec—Sonja was the oldest.

MYERS:

Sonja - my brother was the oldest, then came Sonja, then Dora.

MOORE:

[not understood]

MYERS:

So she stayed home.

MOORE:

Tell me a little bit about your religious life at home there.

MYERS:

Did—I didn't have much religious life because revolution broke out when I was so young - nine or - eight or nine years old. They closed all the Jewish schools.

MOORE:

What about um, before the revolution in the town - do you remember your mother uh—

MYERS:

Yes they had - in that little town they would go - whoever had a bigger house during the holidays they would go and pray there.

MOORE:

D—now you said you kept kosher but what about— KM-0042 20

MYERS:

[interposed] My mother kept kosher. I - I did not.

MOORE:

Oh um, did you - did you experience then any religious persecution or any prejudice there?

MYERS:

Oh yes, oh yes.

MOORE:

Like, for example—

MYERS:

[interposed] After the revolution especially. Well see where we lived it wasn't that bad. They didn't get to us. Uh - th—d—after the revolution there were a lot of killings but we - when the revolution broke out they started killing everybody. First they killed the - the land owners. They were not Jewish - the landowners.

MOORE:

And you're talking about the year 1917—

MYERS:

[superposed] 1917-18, you know they started. And we lived still in Znob - that time. But we had to go to sleep at the peasants' house because they would get - come at night and kill us. We were Jewish. So—

MOORE:

[interposed] Who was coming - do you know? Who was a—

MYERS:

[interposed] See, after the revolution they opened all -- all the jails in Siberia. Instead of letting out only the political prisoners they let out the killers too. The whole - everybody was let out. And some of them came from our town and they were robbing and killing and burning but we escaped that. Because we went to - we left there after a couple of weeks.

MOORE:

Now the small town of thirteen houses - KM-0042 21

MYERS:

[interposed] No that we left long ago. I told you we went to Znob - was a little bigger town.

MOORE:

Yeah Znob -

MYERS:

[interposed] Znob.

MOORE:

Znob. Sorry I don't know how to say it right. [recording skips] - little bigger. How big was that town, would you say?

MYERS:

Oh that was pretty big. I don't know but I remember - I remember the streets. And I was too young.

MOORE:

And did people say that these criminals have come home? Did they mention that in town? You knew that they were coming home?

MYERS:

[superposed] Oh yes, we knew. Cer—espec—the peasants knew. We had a nice friend the peasant and he'd say come to my house at night. Don't stay in your house at night.

MOORE:

So they knew which houses were which?

MYERS:

Yeah.

MOORE:

They knew who was in - who - w—you were Jewish?

MYERS:

There were only a few Jewish people in that town. There weren't that many Jewish people in Znob. They knew where we lived, yes.

MOORE:

In the original town that you lived in with thirteen families - how many were - KM-0042 22

MYERS:

[interposed] Well that was before - that was before d—there were only two Jewish families.

MOORE:

In that thirteen?

MYERS:

Yes.

MOORE:

[recording skips]

MYERS:

No, they were peasants. 'Cause they had the farmers - you know.

MOORE:

So ok so - during - what happened during the revolution? Did you have enough to eat?

MYERS:

[recording skips] - we still pretty good off.

MOORE:

When did it start to get very bad for you?

MYERS:

When we went to a city. See we had to run away from that - from Znob.

MOORE:

Uh huh.

MYERS:

We left in the middle of the night - this peasant. And they were chasing us because they thought we had money. But the - there were two ways to go out to Novgorod Seversk. That was a bigger city and Germany occupied that part that [not understood]. They were there for nine months. So we went there and there were two ways to go. Two - certain place - to roads to get to that - to Novgorod Seversk. So the peasant knew that they make - they were chasing us. They were—

MOORE:

[interposed] So there was word that these people were after you? KM-0042 23

MYERS:

Yes, yes.

MOORE:

And how did [not understood]?

MYERS:

[superposed] So he went the - so he - s—he said to my mother which way you wanna go? She says I leave it up to you. Then he told us later and the horse and buggy thirty miles took the whole day. (laughs) Thirty miles on a horse. And we went to the bigger city and the Germans occupy it. Which was good - that was good. But we had no place to live.

MOORE:

So wait - so you went by horse and carriage?

MYERS:

Yeah.

MOORE:

Alright and you went in the middle of the night?

MYERS:

[superposed] Took our furniture - middle of the night, yeah.

MOORE:

So you had all your furniture?

MYERS:

Yeah, whatever we had - we had the furniture. Yes, mother took.

MOORE:

Do you remember choosing things to take?

MYERS:

We didn't have that much. We had bedding and a little clothes. We didn't have that much.

MOORE:

And so you go to - you went all night and you go to the town - KM-0042 24

MYERS:

[interposed] We - we got - we got to the Novgorod Seversk was a city - very nice city. But we had no place to go because there were a lot of immi—you know - they running away from the revolution. A lot of people - Jewish people - came there. S—so there was a hotel - a big hotel. And under - in the basement - they had like [not understood] until they came with the horse and buggy and those that drove their - their - their buggies - they slept there. Well we got that place - it was horrible. All kind of bugs - so we were there for a while. But then -

MOORE:

[interposed] How did you get that place? The peasant help you?

MYERS:

No, no. The h—peasant went back - had nothing to do. But this people that owned the hotel - they were Jewish people. So they offered us that place. By that time my sister and my brother w—came - we all came to the g—they came to Novgorod Seversk. They left where they were. So we all were in Novgorod Seversk for about two years. We got a - we got an apartment - well, a house.

MOORE:

How long were you in this place that you're talking about [not understood]

MYERS:

[superposed] In that place? Oh, a few months.

MOORE:

How big was it?

MYERS:

It was a big place but it was just nothing but - but boards that people slept on. So we took our bedding and put that there and we all slept on the boards.

MOORE:

And how did you cook food or anything?

MYERS:

I don't remember. We had s—there was something - they baked bread there next door so I guess that's - listen, you did - it was a - it was already getting KM-0042 25 - when Germans left in 1918 they had their own revolution. So they left and the Red Army came in. So it got pretty bad. It was hunger.

MOORE:

So those two months that you stayed in that - in those conditions was in the year 1917?

MYERS:

[superposed] We had a little - we had a little money. No 1918.

MOORE:

1918.

MYERS:

We had a little money.

MOORE:

You had saved money.

MYERS:

Yeah, mother saved money. That's why they were chasing us.

MOORE:

I see.

MYERS:

We had a little money. Not much but we had - we were able to get by.

MOORE:

Now after two months where did you move then?

MYERS:

Uh somebody rented us a - a part of a house.

MOORE:

And how big was that [not understood]?

MYERS:

Oh (laughs) not - not too big I think - just two rooms like.

MOORE:

And it was an apartment? Did it have water?

MYERS:

Not an apartment. KM-0042 26

MOORE:

Part of a house.

MYERS:

I don't remember if we had - isn't it funny that I don't remember. I think - I don't know - I don't think so. There was still the - the toilet was outside, you know. But at least they had already built - you know an outhouse for it.

MOORE:

Yeah and so it was a part of a house that you lived in? A section of a house?

MYERS:

Yes it was a section. It was a big home for the rich people and of course nobody was rich anymore so they rented part of their house to us with a little kitchen and a big room.

MOORE:

And the kitchen - describe - you had your meals in the kitchen [not understood].

MYERS:

[superposed] Yeah, we had a table, yeah.

MOORE:

And what did your mother do for work during that time?

MYERS:

Mother? Traveled from city to city buying this and that and bringing whatever they didn't - w—see Ukraine had some bread yet but Moscow was hungry but they had like shawls that the peasants liked. And mother would take some grain and - and sugar and go to Moscow and sell it there on the - on the mark—a flea market - whatever it was. And then she would buy the scarves and shawls and bring it back and sell it to the peasants.

MOORE:

So she basically started taking things that were in small -

MYERS:

[interposed] Everybody was doing that. Spic—sp—speculating. They call us speculators. KM-0042 27

MOORE:

You're speculating. Were you able to live on that? Was it ok?

MYERS:

Yeah it was ok. We lived very poor. When I was twelve years old I did that because everybody in the family was sick.

MOORE:

With what?

MYERS:

And uh - [not understood] that was - mother already had typhus fever but she had some kinda infection so she couldn't go. My sister Dora - my sister Dora was a housekeeper. And my sister Sonja loved to read books. She didn't care for anything else. My brother just got out the army. So—

MOORE:

Which army was he in?

MYERS:

The - the Red Army.

MOORE:

He was in the Red Army.

MYERS:

Sure, he was seventeen when they took him. But then they dis—were discharging him. And by that time we already had papers to come here. My uncle found us.

MOORE:

Ah so - ok let's go back then. Now this is what year -

MYERS:

That must've been 1920.

MOORE:

1920.

MYERS:

We moved to Konotop. My mother had a sister. KM-0042 28

MOORE:

So after you got out of this place - the - part of the house -

MYERS:

[interposed] Oh no we still lived in Novgorod Seversk then.

MOORE:

Mhmm.

MYERS:

But mother was traveling. But later on we moved - w—she had a sister in Konotop where my brother lived with them.

MOORE:

Right.

MYERS:

And it was better there and they had their own house and they had a part of the house that they gave us.

MOORE:

When you say it was better - what was better?

MYERS:

They had more bread.

MOORE:

I see. So there - more food was available.

MYERS:

More food, yeah.

MOORE:

Did anyone whom you ever - the people who you knew - did you know anyone who was killed or was persecuted in immediate - your immediate circle of friends?

MYERS:

Well a—as a matter fact some of my family - I mean my cousins or my mother's cousins - not my cousins - my mother's cousins were - there were pogroms. And some of them were killed.

MOORE:

And where did they live? KM-0042 29

MYERS:

Uh, that was in Novgorod Seversk, before we got there. There was—

MOORE:

Was that before the Germans?

MYERS:

Oh yeah, before the Germans. There were b—bands coming in. The red— the - the White Army - what they called -- the tsarists.

MOORE:

Were they called Cossacks?

MYERS:

Cossacks, yeah Cossacks they called there. There was one - his name was Petliura - so he had a band -

MOORE:

We've heard of this - we've heard of this band.

MYERS:

Petliura?

MOORE:

From another person who [not understood] we interviewed. Yes, yes - I've heard of this.

MYERS:

[interposed] Yeah? Yes, but we were still in the small town. We escaped Petliura.

MOORE:

But he didn't - that band didn't get to your town.

MYERS:

Not to the little town.

MOORE:

Was - how close did they get?

MYERS:

Just Novgorod Seversk. KM-0042 30

MOORE:

Ok.

MYERS:

But before we got there.

MOORE:

Oh yeah, ok.

MYERS:

But in Konotop they got later. And my aunt had a big house - that before we went to Konotop - and he—she had one daughter. She w—and they got - they got 'em all in one room - all the Jewish women and men. My uncle hid in the attic. They couldn't find him. But my - c—my cousin - a little - she was younger than me - she was a little girl sitting on the bed so they were shooting and they shoot - shot - shot her in the foot but she was ok. But my - one woman they were - they was not relatives but neighbors c—they all came together. They - they cut their feet off. They cut their arms off. They just killed them right in front of my aunt so my aunt decided she's gonna lie - she's gonna fall into their blood. They - she - she made herself like she's dead but she became gray overnight. She became gray right away. She was--

MOORE:

[interposed] Her hair turned color.

MYERS:

Turned gray. She was very young woman, yeah.

MOORE:

Interesting. But she survived.

MYERS:

She survived and my uncle did and th—h—her daughter was ok because the foot healed. It was just a - a s—they didn't - didn't - just in the foot a little bit they - the - the bullet went.

MOORE:

So when - when you got to that town - KM-0042 31

MYERS:

To Konotop?

MOORE:

Konotop - it was over, that?

MYERS:

Oh yeah. That was already - the Bolsheviks were there. They - they were - it was already - they're not - were - weren't fighting anymore. When we were in Novgorod Seversk they were fighting yet.

MOORE:

Some people complain that they - they didn't know who were worse even. The - the Bolsheviks were not so great either, to Jews.

MYERS:

Well, not exactly. I can't - I can't say it because children - they helped us. We used to go - they - we used to bring a little dish and they had kitchens for us. They gave us some soup and bread in Novgorod Seversk.

MOORE:

So they were helpful.

MYERS:

Well, th—originally. See they - they were trying to make it.

MOORE:

yeah.

MYERS:

And the - I - I can't - [recording cuts off]